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Shooting heads

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nicholasfmoore
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Shooting heads

#1

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi all,

I'm starting to make some shooting heads, and have difficulty casting them well. With a full line, I'm consistent with turnover at 120' +, but with a shooting head, the tip tends to land in a pile all the time. What's going on?

All the best

Nick
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:
John Waters
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Re: Shooting heads

#2

Post by John Waters »

Maybe a problem with the line pattern, what's the profile of your shooting head Nick?

John
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Paul Arden
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Re: Shooting heads

#3

Post by Paul Arden »

Depending on the conditions I often find it best to shoot to the reel. This ensures turnover. Certainly that’s how I fish them on those rare occasions when chasing imaginary sea trout.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Viking Lars
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Re: Shooting heads

#4

Post by Viking Lars »

There are most likely several thing in play. Depending on your chosen shootingline, a checked shoot, or to the reel, as Paul says, is also my preferred method when casting in anything but a tail wind.
Monofilament shootinglines have very little resistance and thus turnover can be a problem on longer distances. A coated shooting line helps, but also reduces cast distance, though not with any sigficance in a fishing situation, if you choose one that's not too thick.
And line taper, as John says, plays an important part too and finally I find that leader length is perhaps the most important. When fishing intermediates and floaters in the salt, I rarely use less than 12' and often 15'.
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James9118
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Re: Shooting heads

#5

Post by James9118 »

How long is the shooting head? Could it be that the line has already straightened before the time it gets out to 120ft? Straight lines don't fly well and will 'spaghettify' unless there's a big tail wind.

Cheers, James
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Shooting heads

#6

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Hi Nick

Could you expand a bit on the pile?
Is it from you aiming high?
Is it from turning over and then pilling up in air as there is still lots of momentum? (holding on too long)
Does it kick sideways and pile up? (tracking issue)
Does it not turn over in air but starts looking like flying spaghetti? (too much overhang/slack in the system at release)

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts ;)
nicholasfmoore
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Re: Shooting heads

#7

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi All,

Thank you for your replies!

It's a Scientific Anglers Wet Cel Type II DT9s that i chopped to 35'. Standard 9' Rio tapered leader and Amnesia 25lb mono shooting line (0.53mm). :)

I think it is, James, especially when the wind dropped, and i found it incredibly hard to get a decent distance cast out of it.

I don't think it's aiming too high, i cast it similar to the MED5. :)

"Is it from turning over and then pilling up in air as there is still lots of momentum? (holding on too long)"

"Does it not turn over in air but starts looking like flying spaghetti? (too much overhang/slack in the system at release)"

I would say these two, i've been out today with the ST27 and hit 135', i also did some carry practice with the #5 in a calm spot to check my tracking (i have been working hard to get it back to where it was last year). I didn't bring the 35' head, but i did notice the flying spaghetti, which i think would be the last point you mentioned, Lasse.

Tricky today, i was varying the overhang to get ultra tight loops, but i think I'm still using too much which would make sense. Basically, i just need to practice more with them :)

All the best
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:
John Waters
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Re: Shooting heads

#8

Post by John Waters »

Hi Nick,

Does the 35' head loop fall apart if you use an 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock arc with a back cast drift vs a 170 stroke? I have the same distortion with 30 and 35 feet heads when I use a narrow arc and apply too much power to the stroke such that the line straightens too quickly, with too much speed and it bounces about in the air before it falls to the surface. My issue reflects Lasse's excellent point about slack line because I hit the backcast too hard and haul too fast with the short head length, bouncing the short line backcast, introducing slack. If I open the stroke width using a 170 type stroke arc adjust the back haul speed for short head lines it helps. You can test it by using the same rod hand power without using a haul and see what the line looks like in the air. If the outcome is better, include the haul but either earlier or with less speed. The more dense the line the bigger the issue for me, so I don't use short heads, 50 feet plus is my choice of length.

John
nicholasfmoore
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Re: Shooting heads

#9

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi John,

I haven’t tried stop less with the short head, and use a compact 11-1 stroke with quite a lot of drift as you describe. I hit it quite hard on the forward cast like what I do with the MED, but cast it quite gently up to that point. The forward haul is fast as well, like what I’d do with the MED.

I’ll give that a go next time, John. Thank you! What shooting heads do you use for fishing, weight and length etc?

Does anyone recommend a sinking leader with these as well? I usually just use a heavy butt section to start off, keeping it quite short which works well when drifting to cushion the tip. Especially for sinking lines.

All the best
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:
John Waters
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Re: Shooting heads

#10

Post by John Waters »

Hi Nick,

Just keep experimenting with speed and power and how both are created through your stroke i.e. haul and hand movement range. Lasse uses an excellent stroke in his distance casts. A 170 technique that it is very sound from a biomechanics viewpoint, because of his rod turnover on his backcast. His wrist and forearm positioning and movement range are both excellent. I fish with 6 weight heads (DT cut to 16 metres) for lakes and 9 weight DT cut to 15 metres for salt. I use floating, intermediate and sinking lines. With the sinkers I use an express sinker for casting, but a and a sinker II for fishing when I need extra depth or finer line diameter in wind and that is usually only in salt. Floating or intermediate serves all my fresh water requirements. I too like short mono leaders with sinking lines.

John
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