line carry vs. rod stiffnes

Bernd Ziesche · #1

Hi everyone,
lately we had a lot of discussions about the affect of different rods (stiffnes and rod action mainly) to our casting distances. It seems that most of us agree, that every caster has his personal preferences and has to find his level of stiffnes (and rod action) offering him/her the biggest benefit in order to create line speed, trajectory and shape tight loops. Besides that (distance) competition casters as well as those who fish in heavy winds and/or high distances show a tendency to aim for relatively stiff rods, those that most companies offer as "strong, powerful, fast or extra fast action" rods. One example might be the TCX rod, which Sage offers as "strong and powerful fast action rod".

I am wondering what the range in (mainly) rod stiffnes will mean to YOUR max line carry:

Is there a proportional relationship between stiffnes profile and max carry or not?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Bernd

p.s.: Would love to read about some specific test results

Bernd Ziesche · #2

Lasse Karlsson wrote: Sage XP 590: ERN 5,5 AA 70
Sage TCR 590: ERN 7,4 AA 72
Streamstix T5: ERN 9,0 AA 75
Echo ION 1090: ERN 11,6 AA 75
Echo 3 1290: ERN 13,7 AA 70

Line ED 5wt.

Test #1:
XP Carry: 27,3 m
TCR Carry: 29,2 m
T5 Carry: 28,5 m
ION Carry: 28,1 m
E3 Carry: 27,1 m

Test#2:
XP Carry: 26,5 m
TCR Carry: 28,1 m
T5 Carry: 28,6 m
ION Carry: 26,8 m
E3 Carry: 27,2 m

Sage TCX 690: ERN 8,4 AA 74.
TCX 690: Carry: 28,8 m

Hi Lasse,
thanks for sharing those fine datas. So you seem to love your 6wt. TCX

and have your best carry between ERN 7 and 9. Lower stiffness as well as higher stiffness seeems to decrease your max carry.
Thanks
Bernd

Bernd Ziesche · #3

James:

The rods used were a TCR#5, a TCX#7, a Xi3#10 and a Xi3#12. The line was a MED #5. 3 minutes with each outfit, just the longest cast recorded.

I've rated my longest cast as 100% and the others are obviously in proportion:

#5 - 88.84%; #7 - 93.37%; #10 - 99.86%; #12 - 100%

My other half also had a go, her results were:

#5 - 88.61%; #7 - 93.21%; #10 - 88.30%; #12 - 100% (she obviously screwed up the #10 ).

James

That was about casting distances, but might be worth to put in here, too.
Thanks James for sharing.

Ben_d · #4

Stiffer rod, more carry and in most cases for me, more distance. Obviously to a point, before someone starts quoting broomstick data at me.

Longest casts for me with a #5 line just now are coming from a rod rated #9, longest with a #7 line are coming from a #10 rod on a regular basis. PB with a full #7 line was on a #12 rated rod and this rod always seems to give me longest carry.

Cheers

Ben

Merlin · #5

Despite the numerous times this has been explained, the result of a cast (line speed) is not depending on the absolute stiffness of a rod but on its actual loaded frequency. So what I can read does not surprise me. I would say that for a given stiffness, the higher the non linearity the longer the carry.

Merlin

Paul Arden · #6

Longest carry is interesting but I think there is an optimal carry with a long head. Simply carrying more only results in a longer cast for me when the conditions are right. My theory against a rod that is too stiff is that it must by nature result in a deeper dangling end. But I'm still playing with this.

Cheers Paul

guest · #7

Paul

Do you think that the length of the dangle is related to the tension on the line?

regards

Vince

Bernd Ziesche · #8

Some results from today:

1. Sage SP 4wt. 9' = 24,8m
2. Sexyloops HT 6wt. 9' = 25,5m
3. Sage Z-Axis 8wt. 9' = 25,6m
4. Sage RPLX 10wt. 9' = 25,8m
5. Sage RPLX 11wt. 9' = 26,2m
6. Sage RPLX 13wt. 9' (2p) = 26,4m
7. Sage RPLX 13wt. tip section combined with 11wt. butt section 2,4m in length = 24,6m

Line: MED 5wt.
Carries measured line hand to line end (without leader).

Increasing stiffness offered me an increase in max carry and narrowed my loops (it significally reduced the "bouncing bomb").
Casting the 13wt. rod needs HUGE concentration for me. Smallest mistake and the whole carry is completely gone. Also I can only cast it for a short while and then I need a serious break. It needs huge change in my movements when going from short to max carry.
The more I decrease in stiffness, the better it feels. But loops open up to some degree. Good point for the lower stifness (compared to the 13wt. rod): I need much less adaption of my movements when changing from short to max carry.

It was significant that the 13wt. rod offered me a very good last turn over (windless today). Smaller dangling end.

HT was my favorite for the whole range of casting. The 8wt. Z-Axis was my favorite for distance.
The 13wt. rod simply kills me too fast and needs to much concentration

.

Paul,
I think longest possible carry stands for best mix of max possible line speed and tighest loops with the straighest fly-leg.
I agree that the longest carry is not the point from where I achieve best distance shoots. But still the rod offering the longest carry should mean to have best possibilties?
If you simply use it to aerialize too much of line, the distance shoot easily may start decrease (I agree with that).

I have to repeat the whole test on a really windy day. I think my max carry would decrease significant on the 13wt. because my line speed will go down too much then. But I need further tests here.
Greets
Bernd

p.s.: GT125 is much more fun for me compared to the MED.

It goes 2,5-3m further for me.

Bernd Ziesche · #9

Paul Arden wrote: My theory against a rod that is too stiff is that it must by nature result in a deeper dangling end.

Can you explain what you mean by deeper dangling end and why you think it will get deeper with really high stiffness?

Michal Duzynski · #10

Hi Everyone
I did some casts this morning.
Weather conditions could be better, I had slight head wind comming 45° to my line hand.
Rods :
Sage Z-Axis 590-4 - 26.10m
Sage TCR 590-4 -26,70m
SL HT Comp 590-4 - 27.50m
Echo 3s 890-4 -28.10m

This numbers are the max carry. 2-3 fals casts, then I was loosing it.
For me at this point, those are nice numbers, but I wouldnt shoot for diatance carring so much line. One foot less, and I had better feeling and control on all the rods.
With Echo 8 wt, maybe it was the stiffest, but didnt give me a good feel of the tip. I felt only the runing line and tip that doesnt bend much. I really had to haul fast to keep the tension in overhang.
The best feel after today I had from Hot Torpedo.
I will wait for better weather conditions and do it once more.
cheers
mike