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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

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Michal Duzynski
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#11

Post by Michal Duzynski » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:28 am

The line was MED 5wt
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mike

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Paul Arden
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#12

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 pm

Sorry I'm on the mobile. The dangling end comes as a result of the tip path rising above the line's angle. A more bendy rod will have a straighter tip path. At least that's how I see things.

The propagation of the dangling end is certainly a result of tension, Vince.

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Alejandro
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#13

Post by Alejandro » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:30 pm

Is not there a relationship between the length of the lever and the maximum carry? A stiffer rod keeps the line further from the ground.
I can carry more line with a 10’#7 rod than with a 9’# 10 rod.I can add line until begins to hit the ground,and this happens before with a shorter rod.

I do not deny that other things, such the loop speed or shape, are important in the amount of carry line, but from my experience the length of the rod has an undoubted influence. And a more rigid rod is, in a way, a longer rod.

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Bernd Ziesche
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#14

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:18 pm

Hi Alejandro,
I can only add my personal experience. But it's clear: The stiffer the rod, the less bend, the longer the effective leaver, the longer my carry is in windless conditions.
But I easily can think that the heavier rod slows down rotational speed that much at some (personal) point, that the line starts to drop due to less line speed.
So I think the question is: At what point of stiffness does the heavier rod slow down rotational speed more than the benefit of the longer effective lever would be. Also it is a question of how good one might adapt to stiffness in order to shape tight loops.
Definetly a shorter rod decreases carry significant for me! But I think that is based on line speed, too!?
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Bernd
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Bernd Ziesche
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#15

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:20 pm

Hi Paul,
I am pretty sure the dangle is not a question of rod stiffness but on how one adjusts technique to the rod stiffness and the whole cast.
I can control my dangle now with every rod available. Does not matter for me at all.
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Bernd
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Lasse Karlsson
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#16

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:31 pm

Alejandro wrote:Is not there a relationship between the length of the lever and the maximum carry? A stiffer rod keeps the line further from the ground.
I can carry more line with a 10’#7 rod than with a 9’# 10 rod.I can add line until begins to hit the ground,and this happens before with a shorter rod.

I do not deny that other things, such the loop speed or shape, are important in the amount of carry line, but from my experience the length of the rod has an undoubted influence. And a more rigid rod is, in a way, a longer rod.
Hi Alejandro

I can carry the most with the rod I can generate the most linespeed with, that's neither the stiffest or the longest. i'm not a very strong person, so long rods (above 9'6) have me slowing down, the stiffer rods I can't bend enough so I have a shorter period to hit max speed. And I can't do that either.

Shouldn't the 10' #7 be shorter than the 9'#10? the latter should be the much more rigid one, and therefore bend less?

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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:11 am

Hi Bernd,

I can prevent the dangle too, but not with a 170 arc, and that's the stroke that gives me the longest distance. If I cast a broomstick through 170 it makes sense that the dangle wave is greater than if the tip comes through straighter because of rod bend.

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Bernd Ziesche
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#18

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:26 am

Paul Arden wrote: I can prevent the dangle too, but not with a 170 arc
Hi Paul,
let's see, if I can help to change that to some degree, when we meet. :cool:
In Norway I have seen people using the 170: One had a huge dangle while the other one did have a pretty small one.
Analyzing all the vids I found different causes to have taken place here.
Controlling the dangle (varying it's size) is possible for any size of arc in my book.

Just to offer a few quick thoughts on how to impact the size of dangle in the forward cast:

Independent of the size of arc, you can always:

- adjust the trajectory of the back cast (aim high, low or anything inbetweeen)
- reposition the rod tip between the casting strokes and due to that maintain line tension for the unrolling of the back cast
- adjust the height of the rod hand at the beginning of the forward stroke
- add slide loading or wait with the rod hand all the way back until the line is unrolled
- adjust the haul and slide loading (rod movement here) to maintain line tension for the beginning of the forward cast.

All that has it's effect on the dangle...

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Bernd
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Bernd Ziesche
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#19

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 am

Lasse Karlsson wrote: I can carry the most with the rod I can generate the most linespeed with, that's neither the stiffest or the longest. i'm not a very strong person, so long rods (above 9'6) have me slowing down, the stiffer rods I can't bend enough so I have a shorter period to hit max speed. And I can't do that either.

Shouldn't the 10' #7 be shorter than the 9'#10? the latter should be the much more rigid one, and therefore bend less?
Hi Lasse,
that is how I understand it, too.

If we talk about an 8 feet rod and a 9 feet rod of nearly the same stiffness, I think most casters would create more line speed with the 9 feet model here. But in my experience for a high percentage of casters there comes a point between 9 and 11 feet at which the rod gets too long and therefore rotational speed slows down significally. The (negative) impact of the lower rotational speed would overtake into a shorter overall distance.

Since most rods are in the 8 to 10 feet length I think generally for most casters the longer ones will tend to result in higher line speed. But for sure this is not rammed into stone and one always has to check one's own possibilties here.
It is also a question of HOW LONG we want to cast (fish). Fishing a 10 feet rod at the coast kills me within 8 hours fishing. But the 9 feet does not at all. Still the 10 feet offers me highest possible distance for the first hour, but then... :cool: :glare:

I think we also would have to differentiate between the efficiency in creating an average line speed for fishing and creating max possible line speed when comparing rod length. Creating just an avg. line speed the 10 feet rod might be more efficient compared with the 9 feet one, while creating max possible line speed might be a different story at the same time.

Greets
Bernd
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Paul Arden
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line carry vs. rod stiffnes

#20

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:44 pm

Hi Bernd,

I understand the dangle to be a wave as a result of the tip path rising above the line angle. This wave then propagates along the line resulting in a dangle. It can occur other ways, but I can't see any way of avoiding it on the 170. A rod that is rigid however must create a deeper initial wave than a softer one that allows the tip to travel straighter? The wave can travel through the line, and it can be removed with a different stroke, no question. But I don't see how you can remove it from a wide casting arc stroke such as the 170, only minimise it with a softer rod.

Cheers, Paul
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