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Tendency to tail

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Lou Bruno
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Tendency to tail

#1

Post by Lou Bruno » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:52 pm

How would we best describe "tendency to tail" to a student?
What causes tendency to tail loops?
Should instructors be able to demonstrate this to students?

Lou

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Lasse Karlsson
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Tendency to tail

#2

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:09 pm

Hi Lou

Throw a tail, then throw a tail and open the loop you might get a tailing tendency instead of the tail ;)

Tails and tendencies to tail are from the same problem, a wave in the flyleg put there by the caster.

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Lasse
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Bernd Ziesche
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Tendency to tail

#3

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:10 pm

Lou Bruno wrote:How would we best describe "tendency to tail" to a student? What causes tendency to tail loops?
Hi Lou,
At some point I stopped differentiating between tailing loops and tendencis to tail. The causes are the same. Like for all casting issues the level of each issue can vary between micro issues and huge issues. Putting out two different names for just two levels a) doesn't make sense because there are all kind of levels not just 2 anyway and then b) it makes it unnecessary complicated for the student.
Here is how I see the typical causes:
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... ling-loops
Lou Bruno wrote: Should instructors be able to demonstrate this to students?
Since it's usually the small issues making it much harder to be identified, I believe it's exactly here where the excellent instructor will be identfied. Of course a proper instructor should be able to understand and demo what exactly the student might want to improve.
Regards
Bernd
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Paul Arden
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Tendency to tail

#4

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:00 pm

Hi Lou,

I think the term is extremely misleading. What is being referred to is a wave in the flly leg, one that doesn’t intersect the rod leg but propagates in the same way as a tail (it’s really the same thing without the double leg cross over); i.e. a smaller wave or a more open loop.

One problem is that tailing loops haven’t been defined yet. Neither has “tendency to tail”. Some definitions of tailing loops could include tendency to. What I dislike about the term is that I have a tendency to fart. But this doesn’t mean that I *almost* fart; only that I sometimes fart - particularly after eating beans.

In short I wouldn’t use this term and would eliminate it from our vocabulary unless it really means a tendency to tail, ie tailing loops are a général problem. Instead I would call it for what it is, ie a tailing loop wave or transverse wave in the fly leg.

I don’t know where the term originated. Certainly not here!

Cheers, Paul
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Graeme H
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Tendency to tail

#5

Post by Graeme H » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:38 pm

I'm sure Paul meant "a wave in the fly leg, one that doesn’t intersect the rod leg but propagates in the same way as a tail ..."

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Graeme
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Paul Arden
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Tendency to tail

#6

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:35 am

Yes he did! Thanks Graeme - corrected.

:)
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Bernd Ziesche
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Tendency to tail

#7

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:40 am

Paul Arden wrote:What is being referred to is a wave in the fly leg, one that doesn’t intersect the rod leg
Hi mate,
If it does intersect the rod-leg or not only depends on the position of the viewer. In my teaching I of course might have all different positions around the student. Exactly why the differentitation doesn't help at all!
Paul Arden wrote: One problem is that tailing loops haven’t been defined yet. Neither has “tendency to tail”.
You just did. ;) As did many books, DVDs, Instructor organisations within their exams, the internet.

Again, all these old defintions bring in confusion. So for me it's a wave in the fly-leg. No need to tell, that it does vary in size.
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Bernd
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Paul Arden
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Tendency to tail

#8

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:39 am

Yes but not all waves in the fly leg are tails, for example if I put a horizontal wave to create a curve cast then I’m not sure many people would consider that to be a tail. There has to be some dip in the wave towards the rod leg.

Any idea where the “tendency” idea originated? It wasn’t here. Maybe an FFF conclave? It’s certainly in the last 10 years. Maybe Bruce knows.

Cheers, Paul
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Bernd Ziesche
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Tendency to tail

#9

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:20 am

Paul Arden wrote:if I put a horizontal wave to create a curve cast then I’m not sure many people would consider that to be a tail. There has to be some dip in the wave towards the rod leg.
The Svirolato (TLT) cast is a perfect example of exactly that, a tailing issue thrown in horizontal plane resulting in the leader landing in an almost 90° angle to the fly line. Since the hole loop isin the horizontal plane the wave in the fly-leg will dip into drection of the rod-leg here, too.
A wave in the fly-leg usually causes trouble (no matter if it dips down exactly rod-leg orientated or not) unless one does it on purpose...
Paul Arden wrote: Any idea where the “tendency” idea originated? It wasn’t here. Maybe an FFF conclave? It’s certainly in the last 10 years. Maybe Bruce knows.
I can remember, that we had a long discussion about this here on SL many years ago. As far as I can remember we all agreed the tendency to tail being the same thing but without having the wave crossing the rod-leg when seen from the side view only.
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Bernd
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Lou Bruno
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Tendency to tail

#10

Post by Lou Bruno » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 am

It would be nice to know the FFF official position on this.
Lou

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