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safety

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t.z.
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safety

#1

Post by t.z. » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:52 pm

good FP from Paul.

I bought inflatable life vests for all the boats / guests

https://www.skalestrommen.no/news-adver ... ife-vests/
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Paul Arden
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Re: safety

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:27 am

I’ve always been in two minds about them. I absolutely think they should be on hand - I have life jackets in my boats for customers and will be buying similar to yours TZ in the near future. (Although I’ll buy the self-inflating version and in camo).

About a decade ago they made it mandatory on many UK stillwaters that boat anglers wear them at all times. In Tasmania boat users must wear them when the boat is in motion or be fined.

I’ll be honest - I never wear one in Malaysia. I know all the arguments. But if I fell in while wearing one, I would take it off in order to swim. Yes of course I could bang my head while falling in. Because that happens all the time - not.

It’s like “you can’t go snorkelling unless you wear a life jacket”. I learned to swim. I’m comfortable swimming. I can swim 5 miles without a problem. I don’t wear a life jacket when I go swimming.

Having said all of that - if you are operating fishing boats then you absolutely must provide life jackets!!! :D

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Will
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Re: safety

#3

Post by Will » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:06 pm

Paul

I don’t think it’s about banging your head necessarily. I think there’s a greater likelihood of someone passing out and then falling in (could be dehydration, stomach upset, other bugs, other medical conditions etc.).

The other thing to think about is helping the people left in the boat in getting you back out again. A life jacket buys them a little time in getting the boat in the right position to get the casualty back in the boat. Not an easy thing necessarily.

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Will
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Re: safety

#4

Post by Viking Lars » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:28 am

One can come up with dozens of reasons for not wearing a life vest when afloat, but when examined in a real world scenario, not one makes sense. I haven't always worn PFDs myself, and I've been over all the arguments, but they are so easily punctured.

In Denmark, a boat owner is required to have PFDs for all aboard, but you're not required to wear it. I'm unsure whether or nor this rule applies tp kayaks, canoes, float tubes, pontoon boats and other small crafts, but I think it does.

Lars

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Re: safety

#5

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:16 pm

Where I fish I don’t think I need one. The water is 32C and there is no one around to pull me back in the boat if I fall overboard unconsciously. For rivers on the other hand, I can think of many places where I would actually consider wearing one. The problem is that the self-inflating valve is too low and may inflate during a deep crossing, which could actually create a real life threatening problem. If the valve was at shoulder height and inflated only when the user completely submerges I think that this would be a great benefit in some of the places I’ve fished. I seriously considered wearing a whitewater kayaker’s helmet for gorge fishing in NZ. That’s me evaluating risks to myself.

When I was working at Ardleigh we had a bank fisherman drown. He slipped off the dam wall, couldn’t swim and it was a tragedy. He was mid 20s. A few of my friends tried to save him but he had gone. Now he should have worn a PFD and it would have saved his life. However the point of this little story is, because he couldn’t swim should everyone who goes bank fishing on stillwaters be forced by law to wear a PFD? Where do you draw the line?

We live in a world of people making safety rules for everyone else based on things that might happen. People scold themselves with hot tea, so tea is served colder. Some child may damage an eye when fighting conkers so they ban conkers from school. The problem with all this moddle-coddling is that people will all end up wearing fluffy bubble suits and crash helmets just to go outside. It’s the thin end of the wedge I tell you! :D

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Will
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Re: safety

#6

Post by Will » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm

Paul, there may be no one to pull you back in the boat. But a proper life jacket will turn you over and then maybe you'd still be alive when you woke up! Waking up dead isn't something I'd want to try. :upside:

I think if you're guiding, you prob. should be able to offer the client a life jacket, and get them to sign a disclaimer if they decline. That "thin end of the wedge" will really smart when it gets rammed up your rear by a litigious client! :pirate:
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Re: safety

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:20 pm

Hi Will,

I have life jackets for my guests of course. Particularly important here where a surprising number of people can’t swim. I’m fact it’s always one of the first questions I ask when teaching or guiding. I may be one of the few people doing this by the way - during instructor exams I’ve never heard anyone mention swimming in the safety talk. Even when I’ve asked them if they personally can swim the light bulb doesn’t connect!

I’m planning to get a life saving certificate in the near future as well. Certainly before the end of this summer.

There was a drowning at the resort where my wife works recently. It makes me realise how important keeping up with CPR and other first aid really matters. I think I would have no problems rescuing someone and giving CPR, however it’s good to be on the ball and I think it would be good experience getting certified.

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Re: safety

#8

Post by petevicar » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:29 pm

Interesting topic,

I have fished in many different locations around the world and the only place I can remember where I had to wear a life jacket was fishing from one particular lodge in Alaska. Some of the rivers were very fast and treacherous.

Salmon fishing in Scotland, Norway or Iceland sometimes on big fast rivers never had to wear one.

I have fished from skiffs all over the tropics. There were always life jackets in the boats but I was never instructed to put one on, even in very rough weather.
I was once thrown out of a boat going very fast in Key West with no life jacket. That hurt a lot but I was OK.

It could be a safety issue, I am not sure that it is.

There are some people who are completely reckless who need them more than most.

As a guide it is probably a good idea to have them even if the chance of something happening is very slim. Being sued could be a very costly exercise and it is highly likely that the reckless idiot that gets swept away by the current or falls in because he is fooling around is also a litigious barstool.
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Re: safety

#9

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:05 pm

In Tasmania it's 65AUD fine for not wearing a lifejacket when the boat is under power. https://wearitaustralia.com.au/state-la ... ifejacket/ I'm not sure if it applies to all states in Australia but certainly in many. Australia is the only country I know where it's compulsory. The rules on the UK stillwaters are local water authority rules; they won't let you out on a boat unless you are wearing a lifejacket. They'll even come out and tell you to put them on if you are sitting on them :laugh:

It used to be like that with bicycles. As a kid I would never wear a helmet, they didn't exist then. However as an adult I always wear one -mind you going down hills at 50kmh or more it makes sense. In Australia and NZ you must wear a helmet on a pushbike by law (since 1994 in NZ).

Personally, as strange as it may seem, I do think PFDs would make a lot more sense while river fishing. I've been washed down many rivers and it can be very painful. I haven't actually tried going downriver in a lifejacket, so I'm speculating here, but I do think it would safer.

But I don't know... should surfboarders have to wear lifejackets by law? I realise that many people are not completely comfortable in water - ok so they should probably wear a lifejacket anywhere near water, or better still learn good swimming technique - but should that affect everyone else? There is risk in everything we do and as adults I think we should be responsible for the decisions that affect us. That is in part what being an adult is all about. If I fall in unconscious and drown and I'm not wearing a lifejacket, then that's my responsibility and I accept the consequences. It's probably not going to happen - on the lake where I live, it's much more likely that I get struck by lightning! Even trampled by an elephant is a more likely outcome of my activities on this water.

It's all about where you draw the line. In fact it's really about who is drawing the line and for whom. Unfortunately, in some countries, they appear drawing the line for everyone based on the unlikely outcomes of a few stupid people :laugh: I love Australia but they've gone nuts with health and safety. What I like about Malaysia is no one gives a fuck!

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: safety

#10

Post by piffilus » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:35 am

I can swim but even so I used a life vest in The Ronan when I was going alone or driving the boat at night in the dark. I was mostly worried about banging my head against a stump if I had fallen in. And as you (Paul) said, it might deflect from a fall on a pointed stump, that are very common in the lake. It wouldn't be that comfy to be impaled and then chewed upon by a Snakehead. It was hot as hell wearing it in daytime but safety goes first in my book. I took it off when I stopped the boat for fishing to cool off.

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