PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Moderators: Viking Lars, Magnus

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3680
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#31

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:43 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:10 pm


An even more interesting example I think is trout fishing with fine tippets. We often fish size 20 flies with 7x /.10 tippet. With a 4WT line and a reasonably forgiving rod not a problem. But if that line is a 6WT then you simply cannot fish properly.

It’s like wearing shoes that are too big for you. Yes you can still walk but try to run and you will fall flat on your face!

Cheers, Paul
The wast majority of trout anglers will never fish a fly smaller than 16, and that only if they are very daring.
More likely you'll see 12-14 for the dries, 4-5x for the tippet, and a 4 weight line thats really a 6 and it works for the purpose. And thats really the problem here, we are a small population nerdy and needy enough to want more than what's given, and the market doesn't give a damn about us, as we buy far to little to matter on the bottom line.

Cheers
Lasse

PS. When will that database be up?
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12287
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#32

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:45 pm

Well they sell a lot more lines and have a lot more customers. Customer service is usually always more personal with the smaller manufacturer. I know Josh and Bruce well at SA. I nearly sent them the thread but the first post seemed like a bit of a direct rant at them so I didn’t. (Or haven’t yet).

SA are actually the ones trying to keep the system in place. They feel even more strongly about this than you. The problem happened long ago with Barstool and very heavy lines. That didn’t affect their business but as I said when they chased Cortland customers they had to figure out why they preferred Cortland lines and they were heavy, hence the GPX.

The root problem is people can’t cast very well. They don’t have a variable casting arc and so when they buy a stiff rod - because that’s apparently what the experts use :D - they don’t feel anything. Hence heavier lines. This is all backwards of course because you should buy the line before buying the rod.

For me I work within the AFFTA system. Otherwise we’ll all be fishing 14wt lines with a labelled 4WT rod for grayling. Anyway we can get around all this bollocks for ourselves by weighing the true weight of the line. I will measure mine when I’m back.

Cheers, Paul

PS both RIO and SA tell me exactly what their line target weights are. There are manufacturing variations - sometimes they are surprisingly large! But usually they are pretty good - but not good enough to just measure one line 😂
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12287
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#33

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:56 pm

The database is up Lasse. I need to reset it. Might make a video of how to measure lines. I was waiting for you guys to get more enthused :D

When I fished the San Juan they wouldn’t eat anything bigger than a 28. (Apart from at night of course!). 20/22 are pretty standard in some places I fish. On the Pliva I never fish nymphs on heavier tippet than .10. .12 doesn’t cut it. #16 would be the biggest. But sometimes that’s massive.

Even Ronan in NZ wrote that 20 is the new 18. And that’s for big fish.

I noticed a huge difference on my Tassie trip last compared to 10 years before. I had to drop tippet sizes. Usually to around .14 or .16 in the backcountry. Otherwise the takes were short. When you drop to .16 and a fish runs 30m of line out then having a light weight line makes a huge difference. The drag on some of these heavier lines is massive.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3680
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#34

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:18 pm

What has more drag, a full DT 4 or a short belly 4 (really a 6) with very thin runningline behind it?
Should be easy to give a ballpark estimate on that one...

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Boisker
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#35

Post by Boisker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:31 pm

I just picked up a Cortland type 3 sink tip, grain weight supposedly 160 (it’s a 6w line)... only cast it on the grass this evening. It feels heavy compared to me usual floating line, but it has an aggressive taper, so I guess it would :D
I purchased it for some streamer fishing on smallish rivers, so will see how it goes.

I think my attitude to that particular line was similar to many people buying any line and mirrors the point Lasse made above ... I’ll only use it occasionally, it just had to do the job, namely sink the streamer. But it did feel different deciding which line to purchase- I have absolutely no knowledge of sinking or sink tip lines and have done very little streamer fishing. If I find myself spending more time with a streamer I’ll no doubt look into and getter better knowledge of what I want from the line :whistle:

User avatar
t.z.
Posts: 798
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Skåle, Norway
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#36

Post by t.z. » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:35 pm

Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:18 pm
What has more drag, a full DT 4 or a short belly 4 (really a 6) with very thin runningline behind it?
Should be easy to give a ballpark estimate on that one...

Cheers
Lasse
What about mending?
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams

User avatar
t.z.
Posts: 798
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Skåle, Norway
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#37

Post by t.z. » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:39 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:45 pm
Well they sell a lot more lines and have a lot more customers. Customer service is usually always more personal with the smaller manufacturer. I know Josh and Bruce well at SA. I nearly sent them the thread but the first post seemed like a bit of a direct rant at them so I didn’t. (Or haven’t yet).

SA are actually the ones trying to keep the system in place.
I wasn't´t aware of the fact that SA sticks to the standard ... I read too often - "Made half size heavy turns over large flies on windy days" ... isn't that bolony?
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams

Boisker
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#38

Post by Boisker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:12 pm

But people like them :D

A good reference for me is about 2 or 3 years ago I met up with Vince at a casting instruction day, somewhere in Hampshire... a regular weekend event for people training up for their instructors.
The guy who arranges it (apologies if you’re on SL... I can’t remember your name :whistle: ) had a cast with my radian and immediately said he felt my line was a bit heavy... Rio gold... we strung up a couple of other lines on it and I got what he was saying... I now use 4wt either dt or longbelly that are 120 grains. But i’d probably also just reached the stage where changing lines made the rod feel better... 18 months earlier I reckon I’d have preferred the gold.

I don’t think it’s all down to choice of rod... fast or not... it’s easy to forget you’ve all worked really hard at your casting, some people are happy to fish with an ‘average’ cast and a slightly heavy line works better for them.

An easy solution would be to label slightly differently... for a line that falls within the grain weight range for any line weight then label it a ‘4 line’ etc... for a line that’s been devised specifically overweight then says it’s for a 4w rod... but obviously that would be even more confusing :D

I was looking at sinking line options for streamer fishing.... and had a look at kelly Galloups streamer line, not sure how they are marketed in the US, but over in the UK it says 6/7 w line... the head is 200 grains.... so it isn’t a 6/7 weight line but was designed to cast big articulated streamers with a 6/7 weight rod...

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12287
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#39

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:33 pm

1/2 up is fine if it is half up and says so. When it’s half up or 2 or even 3 WTS heavy, and particularly if it doesn’t say so, then there is an issue. I really don’t understand RÍO bonefish lines being 1wt heavier but you can just buy the lighter one.

(Incidentally when a line is half up I use one line weight lighter on the HT series)

More drag through the water with the 6 I would imagine. Most of the line is in the air, it’s the last ten yards or so that’s the problem. Anyway I don’t sight fish trout flats with a short head. :D

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3680
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#40

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:06 pm

t.z. wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:35 pm
Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:18 pm
What has more drag, a full DT 4 or a short belly 4 (really a 6) with very thin runningline behind it?
Should be easy to give a ballpark estimate on that one...

Cheers
Lasse
What about mending?
Do you mend alot when the fish just spooled you of a full flyline?

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Post Reply

Return to “Tackle”