tips for teaching

[rickoshea]

so I'm taking my APGAI Ireland DH assessment soon and it involves me giving mock lessons to the examiners. I've heard many of the "teaching tips" and would like a few more ideas!

you know what I mean .... "painting the ceiling" for overhead, "flicking some dirt off the tip" for rolls etc - so any ideas you have for this sort of thing plus for single/double spey, snake roll, circle c, snap t/c etc would be cool

[Graeme H]

I watched Peter Hayes deliver a casting clinic here in Perth a few months ago. His methodology is to get the students performing "task-based lessons" where possible. It was a very effective method and I've been using it with success myself.

For instance, get the student to produce dolphin noses on their cast rather than tell them to slow their cast and tighten their loops.

Another task I use all the time now is to get the student to make the loop stall before it reaches the nail knot. This shows them just how little power is needed to make a cast work, and since most of them are really trying to punch out that line, it shows them how inefficient doing that is. Every student I've shown this to has immediately developed tighter loops with less effort involved. It has become my number one tip. It's task based lesson that hits home hard.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

That’s a really broad subject, Richard. It might be better to go through each lesson plan separately!

What are the lessons you can be asked to teach?

Cheers, Paul

[rickoshea]

cheers guys

Graeme, yeah I use that too (and had it used on me ) .... the stalling loops. Its staggering for most to see just how little is needed to make the rod work and produce a smooth, tight loop on the forward cast. As I say I had that done in me and found it nearly impossible to underpower a forward cast. Thanks for the imagery of the dolphin nose!

Paul .... I can be asked to teach, demonstrate the casts with tight loops and perfect turnover plus demonstrate the faults on all the casts I mentioned. I think I can choose the cast for the full mock lesson (probably do the roll cast for this bit) If I make a bit of a cock of any cast I'll be expected to explain why I did, fix it with the second attempt and replicate that fault again. I have my head round most of this (I think )

It's the little things and visualisations for students I like. Painting pictures with words if you know what I mean? like "flicking dirt off the tip of the rod" to get the student to start slow, finish fast with a definite stop on the roll cast. Do you guys use stuff like that?

You'd have loved being up Lough Anna today Paul. Michael and I were up in shall we say "blustery" conditions Me practising 90deg change single spey and messing with loop tightness with underhand casts and Michael showing me his new "neck based" anchor spey with a Carron 86' head! you have to see this one ... we'll get a video done. Great fun with that big head too

[Paul Arden]

I usually “flick a small potato” off the rod tip which should be excellent where you are

I know what you mean and I started a similar thread way back either on this board or the previous one. I’ll try to find it but that might be like a needle in a haystack.

Still it’s a massive subject and the interesting thing is some analogies work for some people and for others they just make things worse! What I often do, when I get a good result, is I ask the student what it feels like. There is no right or wrong answer but I’ve had all sorts of things back - for example the 170 feels like dunking a basketball. Now that makes no sense to me but I’ve since then reused it and it’s made sense to some other students too.

The nice thing about that approach is the student has an analogy that really works for him and is easier to remember and it’s been reinforced. (Not to mention that we might get a free tool in our box!).

I firmly believe teaching is a two way street.

I often use dart throwing and javelin or tennis ball throwing analogies for stance and body positioning. Balancing on a snowboard for bending the knees. Throwing a ball for the stop on the stopless 170. I have them ring an imaginary bell on the backcast with the fly “ting!”. Casting along an imaginary wall and loop through a tunnel for accuracy (both of those are via Steve Rajeff).

One thing I would say, if something doesn’t work then don’t keep forcing it, instead try another approach. But you do want to find something that works pretty fast. There is nothing worse for you and your student when everything you try is failing. I’ll try two or three things. If I’m not getting anywhere by the fourth attempt then I’ll change the cast and come back to it. Otherwise it’s like having a bad acid trip where both you and your student spiral into a black hole. I’m sure we’ve all been there!

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

One thing I would say, if something doesn’t work then don’t keep forcing it, instead try another approach. But you do want to find something that works pretty fast. There is nothing worse for you and your student when everything you try is failing. I’ll try two or three things. If I’m not getting anywhere by the fourth attempt then I’ll change the cast and come back to it.

When I get to this point, I will usually hold the butt section of the rod while the student maintains their normal grip and I cast for them. That seems to get the message across very quickly (with the message normally being "delay the rotation").

But I'll take your method on board Paul. Maybe I'm guilty of persisting too long?

Cheers,
Graeme

[jarmo]

When I get to this point, I will usually hold the butt section of the rod while the student maintains their normal grip and I cast for them. That seems to get the message across very quickly (with the message normally being "delay the rotation").

I have found this to be a miracle method in difficult cases (I hold the rod above the grip). However, I have yet to try this with double handed rods. I haven’t yet figured out how to do it naturally when both hands are involved.

With double handed rods I like pantomime as a teaching method.

[Paul Arden]

When casting together works, then it’s fantastic. For me that would be one of the things to try, not the cure when nothing is working. It doesn’t always work - some students tense up, others cast fine with you but three cast later are back to their old ways. Personally I would shift back to the Triangle Method when it’s tough or just change the cast completely - from overhead to roll for example.

One of my favourite ways of teaching is to be casting another rod and line along side the student. Even better with two lumilines Another is slow motion and pantomime. basically we have a number of ways of trying to achieve the same objective. When I’m completely stuck it’s the Triangle Method for me!

Cheers, Paul

[carlz]

I often use dart throwing and javelin or tennis ball throwing analogies for stance and body positioning.

I use the dart throwing, with the emphasis on the "flick" at the end.
However I also usually point out the Fly Casting is different than any other sport, since there is no follow-through on the stroke.

The paintbrush "flick" is a good analogy and "Throw your coffee out over your shoulder" for the back cast. help get the "hard stop"

I would be happy with a list of analogies just to get this point across.

[rickoshea]

yup "flick the potato" .... that'll work

I've done the rod holding thing and it works sometimes, sad bloody times when I have to ask the pupil if he/she minds me touching them though ....

andddd, I'm a bit lost here .... what's the "triangle method" and "pantomime"?

surely we don't work on beating the pupil into submission with a rubber bat whilst screaming "that's NOT the way to do it Judy"?