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## Curve Casts

Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik

Malik
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:05 pm
Location: Switzerland

### Re: Curve Casts

Hi Graeme,
Svirgolato works backhand too. Maybe not with too windy conditions . Whatever, a bit more difficult to control. As usual, practice is the key.
Best Regards
MALIK

Boisker
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

### Re: Curve Casts

Hi Malik... is the twist at the stop purely from the wrist? And is the circular rotation as viewed looking at the rod tip small a small rotation?
.... and what length of line out the rod tip and what leader length is best to initially practice with?

Never tried this cast, but had seen your video before... cool cast but I imagine the timing takes some time to nail down

Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:11 pm
Location: Melbourne

### Re: Curve Casts

Malik wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 pm
PS for Mark : let me know how it’s going on.
Will do mate.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

Bianchetti Ivan
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:25 am

### Re: Curve Casts

1_the line behind must be stretched in the direction in which the fly must go. 2_the tip of the barrel advances following a non-straight path (you can start with the wrist slightly rotated, inwardly putting it back, during the path, this will move the tip), 3 the barrel advances, when the tip reaches three quarters of the its stroke, pull the left, (at this point you will see the loop going forward) 4-complete the stroke of the barrel following a straight horizontal line) passing with the tip under the line writing a _u_ (all sequences must be performed without stops, the wider the movements the easier it is to ruin the throw) you get the curved throw to the right if you hold with the right.

Malik
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:05 pm
Location: Switzerland

### Re: Curve Casts

Boisker wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:27 pm
Hi Malik... is the twist at the stop purely from the wrist? And is the circular rotation as viewed looking at the rod tip small a small rotation?
.... and what length of line out the rod tip and what leader length is best to initially practice with?

Never tried this cast, but had seen your video before... cool cast but I imagine the timing takes some time to nail down
Hi Boisker

Good points !

1. You can make the twist at the stop without the wrist. As I wrote before, there is many ways to “twist” a rod tip at the end of a cast, for instance with “hauling the line to soon” https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/tailing-loops/. But I think It’s easier to learn this cast if you make it without hauling, side cast style, with a (light) counterclockwise rotation (if you are right handed) of the wrist at the stop. I say “at the stop” in order to create a mental image. Technically, I guess it’s somewhere between the maximum power application and the stop with an incidence on the loop formation but surely not after the loop formation. As you wrote, finding the good timing is the main key point. “Bad” tracking (breaking the 180 rule) can help but is not decisive according to me. Take the 5 possible causes of a TL according to Paul and you have good bases for casting an excellent svirgolato

2. Amplitude of the rod tip rotation: we need a good Aitor’s style slomo of the rod tip at the conclusion of the casting stroke during the loop formation to check what really happens. But I would say that is a subtle but quick displacement of the rod tip coming from the right to the left before rsp and, of course, before the countraflection. It can be more and less flat, circular, elliptical : depending of that, the trajectory of the fly leg will twist with more and less amplitude. If you make your “twist” with a light counterclockwise of the wrist, you will obtain a reasonable ample and circular twist of the fly leg and the tippet. If you just « shake » up and down the rod tip (slightly but firmly) instead of rotating the wrist, you will obtain a more flat twist of the fly leg (spectacular and useful to propulse your leader under the bank trees). There is plenty of possible variations : “Svirgolato” is just a pattern, you can design it according to the fishing situation your facing !

3. For the training and a reasonable control of the cast I would say 2 rod lengths of line, so something between 16/18 feet of line with an “aggressive” leader. I like long leaders (between 14/18 feet) but I will recommend a much shorter one for practicing the cast at the beginning: 9 feet will be ok. I like “broomstick style” rods which I underline but a smoother one overlined can really help to learn this cast. Just go a bit more smoothly. Gently let lay down the line on the water after the stop can help too (so don’t rise the tip of the rod during or after the stop)

Have fun !

Best regards

Malik

Bianchetti Ivan
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:25 am

### Re: Curve Casts

You see little, pulling with the left will go where you want.

Boisker
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

### Re: Curve Casts

Thanks Malik... if it ever stops raining and blowing a gale I will get out and have a play...

Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:11 pm
Location: Melbourne

### Re: Curve Casts

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:17 am
Malik wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 pm
PS for Mark : let me know how it’s going on.
Will do mate.
Hi Malik
Just back from the park. I really like it and your advice was spot on so many thanks. As ever timing is all. Started with the rod in a side cast plane but very soon wanted to see how close to the vertical I could take it. Now have the casting knots in the tippet to prove I went beyond the practical limits.

Needs more work of course but towards the end I could land the fly repeatedly within a couple of feet of the target and with a nice right angle shape in the leader. The main attraction for me is that as an overpowered curve it enables control and accuracy way beyond what is offered by an underpowered curve.

A suggestion for fellow students. Try slipping the butt section out and using it to pantomime the twisting movement and (especially) the timing in slow motion, then with slower motion and eventually normal speed. Repeat the exercise as required. Oh, and fwiw I found it worked better (more controllably) when I kept my elbow in and operated with something closer to the foundation or basic casting stroke. More variations to come.

When the wind reversed direction it became a lot more difficult to get that last switch around of the fly but even that was useful experience. Can see it finding a place in my bag of tricks.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

Malik
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:05 pm
Location: Switzerland

### Re: Curve Casts

Hi Mark

Thank you for your feedback, very interesting. It seems that you “catch the cast” !

As you and your tippet noticed , more you cast it on a vertical plane more you have to deal with line trajectory issues. More you cast vertically more difficult it is to cast forward while you are trying to produce a force from the right to the left : collisions must occur somewhere (by the way: never try to learn the svirgolato with a fly ! )
Actually, on a total vertical plane you should first obtain a “close loop” with the tail of the fly leg under the rod leg, everything in a vertical plane (and not the tail part of the fly leg above and to the left of the rod leg, in an horizontal plane, as in a “standard” svirgolato”).
At this stage, if you can control the trajectory of the tail (which is not a big issue with some practice), you have 2 options:
1. You direct this tail (the end of the leader, better: the tippet or the fly itself) in the water and lay down your rod. The final unrolling of the loop is stopped and the result is a fly landing first curve cast to your left or to your right, depending which side you have casting your “closed” loop. You can not really control this cast over 10/12 meters but it’s a nice trick cast in many fishing situations.
2. You let the fly kiss the water maintain some tension and don’t let the leader/line fall in the water : the fly kiss the the water and jumps forward as the loop finish to unroll. May be not excessively useful for your everyday fishing (who knows?) but funny stuff and excellent exercise. It’s the same dynamic of the svirgolato but in a vertical plane.

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:42 am
A suggestion for fellow students. Try slipping the butt section out and using it to pantomime the twisting movement and (especially) the timing in slow motion, then with slower motion and eventually normal speed. Repeat the exercise as required. Oh, and fwiw I found it worked better (more controllably) when I kept my elbow in and operated with something closer to the foundation or basic casting stroke. More variations to come
Thanks for the trick, I’ll use it for my teaching!
Take care
Malik

Malik
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:05 pm
Location: Switzerland

### Re: Curve Casts

PS : your Einstein series are really helpful. Thanks for that !
M.