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Shooted cast

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Merlin
Posts: 1476
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: France

Re: Shooted cast

#71

Post by Merlin » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:35 am

I think I am releasing post MCL but as soon after as I am physically able. As soon as I sense (imagine?) the rod butt has begun to unload, I open the fingers of my line hand.
Hi Gary

Because of the lag time between rod unloading signal capture - brain - opening fingers can be about 80 ms (40 ms in each way), you are likely releasing pre RSP or close to RSP. You say that it corresponds to peak haul velocity also (halway of haul approximately) but are you sure that your peak haul velocity does not correspond to the maximum load of the rod (MCL)?

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Shooted cast

#72

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:12 pm

Merlin wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:35 am

Hi Gary

Because of the lag time between rod unloading signal capture - brain - opening fingers can be about 80 ms (40 ms in each way), you are likely releasing pre RSP or close to RSP.
Merlin,

I am pretty sure it is before RSP since I can still do things with my rod hand to affect the loop, like raise or stab. You know better than most my affection for "slower" rods. This is one of the reasons... more ms for me to play within. I will dig out one of my legacy rods that are almost glacial and see what they might tell.
Merlin wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:35 am

You say that it corresponds to peak haul velocity also (halway of haul approximately) but are you sure that your peak haul velocity does not correspond to the maximum load of the rod (MCL)?
Well, I can't be sure without filming, but it feels as if the rod's lower section has begun to unload...so I assume it cannot be at MCL. Also, it might not be at PHV... it might be before. I attempt to release near or before about half way through my max haul stroke. It is more than Paul's "touch" but way less than my usual full arm extension.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Shooted cast

#73

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:17 pm

Dirk

Thanks for that video. I have always admired Mel's approach and casting.

I may have a hard time tossing the rod into my other hand, but I'll give it a try. My off hand subconsciously turns over and guides the shooting... so I will have to drop the line first.

Maybe I can toss it up then rewatch it in the same hand???
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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gordonjudd
Posts: 1372
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Location: Southern California

Re: Shooted cast

#74

Post by gordonjudd » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:34 pm

I read again the study performed by Ulrik and Grunde three years ago, and max haul speed for a competition cast with trout tackle and MED5 was in the 8 m/s to 12 m/s range.
Merlin,
Ulrik was instrumented to measure the speed between the haul hand and the rod hand rather than the actual speed of the haul that comes from taking the derivative of the distance between the first stripper guide and the haul hand as preferred by Grunde. Thus they missed any contribution to the haul speed that comes from the rotation of the rod.

I don't think it would have a big effect on the forward cast, but it would miss the most important contribution to haul speed on the back cast which comes from the big increase in haul velocity that comes from the rotation of the rod.

In this cast of Paul's his max haul speed was around 10.8 m/s and reached that peak a bout 40 ms after MAV as shown below.
Image

Gordy

Dirk le Roux
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Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Shooted cast

#75

Post by Dirk le Roux » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:58 am

Mangrove Cuckoo wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:17 pm
Dirk

Thanks for that video. I have always admired Mel's approach and casting.

I may have a hard time tossing the rod into my other hand, but I'll give it a try. My off hand subconsciously turns over and guides the shooting... so I will have to drop the line first.

Maybe I can toss it up then rewatch it in the same hand???
Ed's, not Mel's?

Catching with the same hand will work just as well. Even balancing on a finger if you can. The exercise is to eliminate the caster's interference amap asap.

Cheers,
Dirk

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