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Overhang

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Carol
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Location: Summit County, Colorado

Overhang

#1

Post by Carol » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:22 am

Why and when is overhang needed? What does it do for the cast?
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

nicholasfmoore
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Re: Overhang

#2

Post by nicholasfmoore » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:39 pm

Hi Carol,

Overhang retards turnover and also gives you a tighter loop than otherwise possible. This is because the head of the fly line isn't being drawn around the loop during the counter flex of the rod (with overhang), tighter loop = more distance and the line shoot is vastly improved with less counter flex.

You can extend your carry with short headed lines (Rio SHS for example) by following through backwards and forwards instead of an abrupt 'stop'. This minimises slack that forms in the running line as we increase the overhang. By making sure your rod is pointing down the line as the loop is straightening, you can keep the tension in the running line by lifting the rod SLIGHTLY as the head passes over the rod tip.

Of course you can go too far and have WAY too much overhang (expect Lasse's video 😂), in this case you will loose tension and slack will build in the running line. Bearing in mind the actual thing we are casting is the head, and with too much overhang the head doesn't even enter the loop because of the slack build up and loss of tension. So that's why you can't present a cast with an ultra long overhang.

I'm sure Paul and Lasse will give you a better description than that.

All the best
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:

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Paul Arden
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Re: Overhang

#3

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:59 am

I’ll write an FP on this subject. It’s a good one!
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Carol
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Re: Overhang

#4

Post by Carol » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:00 am

Thank you, Nick. I look forward to the FP, Paul.
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Overhang

#5

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:50 am

Hi Carol,
Let's imagine you have no overhang, but still the end of the head in your tip section when you are about to shoot some line to distance.
1. Problem: The end of the head has a large diameter and thus "sticks" in the rings (more friction).
2. Problem: When the rod counterflexes after passing rod straight position (where loop formation starts), more line mass (again the thicker end of the head) will get a wrong direction. This line mass in wrong directed motion detracts from having the head go where you want it to go.
3. Problem: As Nick mentioned counterflex opens the loop to some degree. You better have this happen to the rear taper (or shooting line), not the head itself.

Then we have the rod tip in a perfect cast move along an almost straight line over some of it's accelerational path. For sure before reaching RSP (rod straight position = loop formation starts = tip starts to slow from here on) the tip will move into a curved path. Overhang can make it possible to have the head being acclerated along the almost straight part of the accelerational tip path only.
Obviously when having more line out before shooting, you need to shoot less distance. Depending on the best matching amount of overhang this can be some meters. Also this can be extra line mass (set in motion) depending on the overhang constellation.
Regards
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Overhang

#6

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:34 am

Here are my thoughts on the subject https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-overhang

That’s why I wrote an FP. I knew it was going to be a long reply :D

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Stefano De Martini
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Re: Overhang

#7

Post by Stefano De Martini » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:13 pm

Hello, guys I often see many casters making 5 or more false casts and personally I think it's a mistake. To give my contribution, I would try to distinguish between the ability to "keep in the air" a certain amount of line for a certain number of times and instead having the right amount of line at the right time. In my opinion, carrying a large amount of line is not directly related to the length of the cast.
More precisely I believe it is a dynamic balance and what really matters is the overhang you have in the last back cast. Just before the last forward cast starts. Nothing else,
I post my little recent vid, where you can see what I mean.



Before each back cast a good amount of line is released from the left hand. There was a lot of tailing wind here, but often i release in the last back cast too. This is to have your whole head out in a split second. I think having to do it 2 times in a row would be impossible for me. :closedeyes:

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Paul Arden
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Re: Overhang

#8

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:55 pm

Hi Stefán, like you I also go on three however when false casting practise I can aerielise more line than I use for throwing distance. With a MED5 I can carry around 95 at sea level but I comp I’m around 90. I feel that this makes my shorter carry more dynamic.

For me these are distinct skills that need developing separately.

Cheers, Paul
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Michal Duzynski
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Re: Overhang

#9

Post by Michal Duzynski » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:02 am

" DOVE AZZO È??"😂😂- grande
Steffano, I think you need a bigger flufffff😎
For me its about tension in the loop and tracking.
Its about practice on long carry and how to keep tension in the loop on that carry, and how to control your overhang to put tension in the back cast. What I mean by tensiin is, that on your forwaed cast/delivery you want to feel that there is something behind that rod tip, you want to feel it and pull it to the front of your rod and let it fly.
There is no point of carring 95 feet( yes can be done) and hit the final delivery with the slack thinking " ooo, I carry a lot it should go further"- it wont.
That is why Paul is saying, comp carry around 90' as it keeps the dynamics in the loop.
If you are good enough to keep the same dynamic with 95' carry, good for you.
Tracking- ok, you say, I have good/long/controled carry, and speed, but it still doesnt go as far, landing is allover the place, not straight- this is when tracking comes to place. You can have supper fast, sharp, loong loops, but if you BC is not allinged with your FW you can kiss your distance goodbye.

Steffano, 5-6-12 false casts- who cares?? if this is the way you cast 140 feet with 5MED, so be it.
Personaly Im like you and Paul( and many others) , pick up the fluff from 70' and of she goes on a second cast, but if somebody needs more time to get to the desire carry, to the control over the loop, speed and tension anf it takes 5 false casts, I think nothing wrong with that.
In a comp 2 longests casts matter during 4min.
2min to set up my 1st, and 2 min to set up my 2nd, 4min after GOLD MEDAL, and see you later😁

As per Overhang in the first question SEATROUT DISTANCE, or any shooting head casting could be a big eye opener. With those set ups you can see what happen if its too much, or not enough. There is HUGE difference in the loop shape, and the way it flies when you have 10cm too much overhang and when you have the perfect amount of it. But to find out you have to be out and practice.

cheers
mike

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Carol
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Re: Overhang

#10

Post by Carol » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:47 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:34 am
Here are my thoughts on the subject https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-overhang

That’s why I wrote an FP. I knew it was going to be a long reply :D
Thank you for the FP and the awesome display of balance in the video. Happy Birthday to SL too! Your creation is into its second year of being of drinking age (at least here!)

The FP answered a few questions, and a side-channel conversation with Nick answered some others too. I'm starting to get the hang of what overhang is about. Thank you. :D
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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