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Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#21

Post by Phil Blackmar » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:05 am

I'm looking forward to the challenge. It will take some research and practice for me to complete the entire course since I have only fished for freshwater trout a few time. Most of my fly fishing is saltwater sight fishing. Accuracy, loop control, throwing in the wind, distance (75-100 ft) at times, heavy flies, big flies, larger rods, few false casts, moving targets from a moving boat etc. My roll, reach, aerial mends, collapse casts all are weak to non existent... Don't fall off the roof

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#22

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:57 am

Ah great! My sort of fishing ie taking shots. What are you like with backhanded delivery casts? Most of the guys I take fishing here from tropical SW background have good shots off the forehand but almost non existent backhand which is a problem sometimes.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#23

Post by Phil Blackmar » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:02 pm

Yeah, that pesky right to left wind....I'm great and giving my friends a left to right instead of right to left shot. With that said, I can cast fine from the back hand side or with the rod tilted across to the left side. I have a very good side arm soft delivery when wanted and I am pretty good with the upside down or underhand loop for a super soft delivery. I'm working on a new tracking transition from back cast to front cast for the long distance obsession. It is requiring me to be more over the top on the forward delivery and is a little uncomfortable....time...time...time... I have a video of my regular delivery ready to go once Vimeo lets me back on the site after too many failed password attempts...LOL I will forward it as soon as I am able. Turns out my biggest fault in my golf swing is also screwing up my casting....go figure...

Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#24

Post by Phil Blackmar » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:24 pm

Hi Paul-here you go. I tried a couple different sites and this one had the best quality. Thanks for taking a look

Phil

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#25

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:19 pm

Hi Phil,

Ok several things here. First is I think that you should turn more to face the front target. You are very side on, particularly in the second video. Have a look at the video at the very bottom of this page and you’ll see that I’m squarer to target. https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/compe ... ance-cast/
This is a change of foot position and should help tracking but will also enable you to get your body behind the forward cast.

Second is your backcast looks to be tilted over the side? While that’s often useful it’s also important to be able to throw directly over the rod tip, both back and forwards. This is far more efficient. I would recommend working on that and if you need to tilt the casting plane while fishing then do so then!

Third. You turn you head on the backcast at the same time as you make the stroke. On the forward you turn earlier - which is good - but I’m not sure if you are looking at the target? On the backcast look to the target first, then throw. Then look at the front target and then throw. To learn this you might need to drop the line between back/forward casts a few times. You must pick targets and look at them before you cast.

I think it’s not bad at all!!! Haul looks excellent! I would like to see the line travel more over the tip. A big change for you that will help greatly, is to delay rotation longer on the forward cast. As you make the beginning of the forward cast lead with the rod butt, not the hand, and then turn the rod over later in the stroke. Time the force and the haul really late in the cast and try “hitting it” only in the second half of rotation. It’s very difficult to be “too late”, very easy to be too early.

One final thing that I think might help immensely, would be to close up your stance completely and throw at targets 50-80’ away. That would be a much more compact stroke, involves both a narrower arc and trajectory adjustments – and I would drill that in using the minimum amount of force you can use. I think that would be a very good drill and when you turn it back on for distance, I think you notice a different sense of control. Ie more purpose. When I get guests here who have a good SW cast like you, I throw shoes out onto the lake and ask them to hit them. I want to see that compact stroke.

Incidentally a video shot up closer, showing everything, like the one I mention above, would be better. Because I’d like to see how you are gripping the rod etc and on my phone it’s very hard to see this!

I think pretty damned good, Phil. You’ve definitely come to the right place! There is more I’d like to say but I’d rather you worked on that first and we will get to the other stuff later.

The nice thing is I don’t have to repeat myself now, as I would in the field, because it’s all written above :D

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#26

Post by Phil Blackmar » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:18 am

Cheers Paul-

I had a feeling you would say what you did...BTW-its awesome for you to have taken the time. Thank you so much....What you do with your site is truly amazing.

With that said, I can stand square and even closed in the range you mentioned no problem and hit my targets a minimum of 80 percent of the time. However, when I go over the top, I really suck. I mean really really suck. Not just suck , but sucking as in pitiful. You know the type. You're off to meet you next lesson for the first time and you notice your new student has scars all around his mouth where he keeps missing when feeding himself. The coordinated type. :). :). :). That's me over the top. Qualifier-this is my attempt at self-deprecating humor so please enjoy and don't take it the wrong way.

I just spent two solid hours working on it and there is not a school bus around that could not drive through my backcast loop, if it's not tailing. I know the rules and how it works, I can't figure it out. My forward cast is a little better, but still not appreciably far from the gutter. With all that said, with as much whine as possible, I will not quit on you and am committed to continue to work. Plus, I just bought more stock in Advil.

As for delaying rotation in my forward cast and aiming high, I really struggle with two things. First, my fly hits the ground or water about half way to me on the forward cast after the back cast ends. When I try to solve the problem, my aim gets lower. Second, I fight a tailing loop. When I rotate late and attempt to haul later to avoid the tail, my loop opens up...

The nice thing about sucking for a couple hours is the commencement of beer drinking...I'm still pretty good at that, on any plane....

Thanks again Paul

Cheers

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#27

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:04 am

Hi Phil,

Yeah that’s why I mentioned it :D :D
Dialling in those short casts is really important. It’s not uncommon to find people using 10-2 or whatever for short casts as well as long ones, which of course gives wide loops. Lack of a slow lift prior to the casting stroke is another cause of a wide loop on the first backcast.

You see, I think it’s what you will learn from hitting targets at close range, that will improve your long range cast. Basically you’re pretty damned good with the Driver, but what about the sand wedge?

That accuracy game that I linked to a few posts back, will obviously make you better at short range accuracy, but it will also tighten up and straighten your back loops for distance. That’s the difference between me saying something like, “lift your elbow six inches on the backcast and doff your hat” to saying “make accuracy casting one of your things”.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#28

Post by Phil Blackmar » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:00 pm

Hey Paul-

Nice reference to golf. My game was built around length, inaccuracy :) :) , a good wedge and short game, good putting and determination. The downside to obsessive determination is frustration. I apologize. I enjoy trying new methods in golf and fly casting. If you remember the roadrunner video I sent, those shots were from about 60 to 70 feet on a 3 o'clock plane and were pretty accurate. I say accurate, on a fishing scale, not on a competition accuracy scale.

On a slanted plane, I can rotate early and extend the rod tip upwards and generate a very tight loop. Not good for distance casting but very good for fishing distance and accuracy. The same method on a 12 o'clock plane doesn't generate good results for me.

When I stop quickly, ala Raejeff, a get a jumbled mess of spaghetti. I have experimented with his 12/6 plane, the short looking backcast stroke and listened to his comments for years without personal success...I even videoed it in slow motion to study. He gave me a lesson years ago but I was just starting and wasn't advanced enough to ask the right questions. On that day, with the wind blowing about 18 mph, he took my 8 weight, tossed the line up, made a short backcast, a forward cast, a back cast and threw the entire line downwind with a perfect 12/6 loop at about 18", into the door of one of our equipment trailers. Incredible.

I'm out of town right now. When I get back tomorrow or Tue I will set up the course. I have watched your videos on the various casts as well as the one I think you did in Malaysia about such a course. I'm going to try to complete it first on whatever plane feels comfortable just for my own information. Then, I will begin working on the course using a square orientation and 12/6 plane.

Thanks for being so patient. BTW, when I teach golf, I often try to get a message across to a student using shot shapes and trajectories rather than positions...I understand and appreciate your method.

Cheers
Phil

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#29

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Hi Phil,

Thanks, that’s interesting! I don’t wish to give you the impression that all casting should be in 12 o’ clock plane over the tip, because this is most certainly not the case. However I do think it beneficial to be able to do it – it is the cast where tracking is easiest and it offers maximum efficiency in the loop. For me I look at it as being a “foundation cast”.

Here is a drill that I think you will like. Starting with the fly in the target at 50’ make a pick up and lay down cast at 12 o’ clock plane. Then 1, then 2, 3, 2, 1, 12, 11, 10, 9, 10, 11 and finally back to 12.

Then do the same drill but this time with “just enough” power to unroll the loop and no more. And then finally repeat the drill at the maximum delivery speed possible.

For this cast I’d recommend closed stance and elbow forward in-line with the target. However the purpose of it, is to experiment with different styles/techniques and to compare between them.

There are lots of variations you can do with this. For example stick the target at 30’ or 60’ - certainly I would not want you to dial in on only one length.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#30

Post by nicholasfmoore » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:42 pm

Hi Phil,

Nice casting my friend! Paul already mentions things i would say, however, I'll save you the trouble of sifting through the SL site, here are some links to my FP's

https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... d-tracking

https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... u-acquired

Ok, not comp distance but fishing distance with a #5

https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... shing-cast

All the best
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:

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