The effect hauling has on line speed

[VGB]

I still don't understand the details of the analysis of the haul that Bill McGlinn included in his book "Physics of Fly Fishing_ Fly Cast Mechanics and Fly Fishing Optics" but he concludes his analysis with:

Maybe we need to define why we are hauling; is to produce the longest cast, load sharing or to accurately hit a particular line speed. I think that I vary my haul timing and rates depending on what I’m doing.

Regards

Vince

[Lasse Karlsson]

Looks like even when I just fool around, it's at the end of the line for the cast.
Length and duration might shift, but time is at the end. Somehow also makes most sense given the long lever in the other hand



Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

I still don't understand the details of the analysis of the haul that Bill McGlinn included in his book "Physics of Fly Fishing_ Fly Cast Mechanics and Fly Fishing Optics" but he concludes his analysis with:

We see the largest effect from hauling is not the extra speed that is imparted by pulling the line down during the haul, but rather by the early loading of the rod by the haul.

Go figure.

Gordy

Hi Gordy

Just read the chapter... Somehow I get the feeling Bill doesn't know how to haul during a cast, but really likes making models and calculations. His hauling calculations are based on a vertical rod and the displacement of the rodtip when 50 cm of line is pulled in through the rings, if I understood it correctly.

The latter shows the launch speed of the leader/fly to be about 7000 cm per sec., easily exceeding our threshold for a successful launch of 4500 cm per sec. This is in contrast with the launch speed of about 4300 cm per sec reached by a cast without hauling

This is the text just prior to the conclusion you posted. Figures are from a modelled 40 foot cast with a 120 cm elbow thrust and haul. And haul is done in the first .15 sec of the cast.

Something seems off.

Cheers
Lasse

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

I still don't understand the details of the analysis of the haul that Bill McGlinn included in his book "Physics of Fly Fishing_ Fly Cast Mechanics and Fly Fishing Optics" but he concludes his analysis with:

Maybe we need to define why we are hauling; is to produce the longest cast, load sharing or to accurately hit a particular line speed. I think that I vary my haul timing and rates depending on what I’m doing.

Regards

Vince

Vince,

Amen brother...

But given the complexity of trying to digest flycasting down to a finite set of equations, and the infinite number of variables involved in the multitude of desired outcomes from all the potential casts, I guess the one model we can all agree upon is maximum distance...

Which is a very small percentage of my casts.

But ya gotta start somewhere, and maximum distance is probably the easiest parameter for every individual to measure.

[Graeme H]

How much additional line speed and or distance is directly the result of the haul?

With all other aspects being equal, the line speed is increased by an amount equivalent to the haul speed*.

Cheers,
Graeme

* Assuming the haul is made in close alignment to the axis of the rod butt.

[Paul Arden]

Since you are hauling through an intermediary spring, the speed on the separation of the hand will not immediately cause a direct increase in the fly speed since some of the energy from the haul will go into increasing the bend of the rod.

I agree that it’s not exactly the same but I would think it’s pretty close. Arguably a well timed haul won’t increase rod bend but will delay rod unbending.

I don’t agree at all with the conclusion offered in the quote. When was that published?

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Hi Lasse,

I first heard the 100mph figure from Tim Rajeff in a presentation he gave. I asked a few times on the Board and give or take 20mph it sounds realistic. Grunde, if I recall correctly said 100mph was around right for line speed, but I couldn’t find the link. I’ve been using it as a ballpark figure for a long time now. On a short cast I’m sure that we can generate higher speeds.

What I don’t understand is why our measured haul speeds are so low. Often around 20mph. Perhaps you and I both need to eat more spinach?

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Paul

Yeah, I have heard the number before too. And 44 m/s does sound ok. And with a 13 m/s haul, then the haul doesn't sound too slow, that is just the hand moving the line, we have a 9 foot lever we rotate in the other to get a higher number.

We need to measure up Bernt, and get his numbers

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Sounds good. If we could find a way of measuring that would be great. The numbers don’t make sense to me. Separation of hand speed - 30mph. That’s potentially each hand moving at 15mph. We may not be trained baseball pitchers but that’s like walking to church.

Maybe we just don’t throw at maximum haul speed.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Looks like even when I just fool around, it's at the end of the line for the cast.
Length and duration might shift, but time is at the end. Somehow also makes most sense given the long lever in the other hand

You are going to spook the fish up there Sorry, I’m not sure what “time is at the end”means but I agree that the haul is later in the cast. However, I have no reference to bend or MCL in real time, it’s not where my eyes are focused and peripheral vision doesn’t give enough information to supply the information.

I guess the one model we can all agree upon is maximum distance...

Which is a very small percentage of my casts.

But ya gotta start somewhere, and maximum distance is probably the easiest parameter for every individual to measure.

I understand the sense of that but it skews the picture for readers who use this place as a self help book. For teaching the haul, I’m more interested in making sure that the line speed is increased in the intended direction of the cast and the triangle method gives a lot of references to the learner to achieve that outcome. Without a usable real world cue that you can monitor, none of this analysis is of much use.

Regards

Vince