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Paul Arden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:13 am
Hi Gary,
Similarly early spikes result in late tails and late spikes in early tails because of the amount of time the serpent has had to travel away from the loop front because of fly leg tension.
Cheers, Paul
Paul,
I know that the above is generally accepted by some folks and I do not challenge it.
But, I am not clear on what constitutes an early vs late tail... and particularly how either one relates to "wind" knots.
As a supposed teacher, I am frequently asked to help students who suffer from both tails and knots. I can demo a tail easily, knots not so much. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, I cannot put a knot in the flyline.
In my own casting, if I see a knot it is usually about an inch from the fluff when casting distance. Student knots are commonly somewhere closer to the middle of the leader. Knots in the flyline is a current thing I'm seeing from a novice caster.
So what constitutes an early tail vs a late one? And, what do either have to do with the location of knots in the leader...if there is any?
Just curious!
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
I think a late tail (early spike) is more likely to make a wind knot but both certainly can. Generally for a tail to create a knot there also has to be a collision as a result of tracking. Ie the fly leg travels into the rod leg at an angle and the fly wraps around the leader/line. For casters who throw their backcast behind their backs (instead of off shoulder, which is also a tracking fault of course) then for them they are more likely to get curved cast layouts instead of tangles. The casters who throw off-shoulder – which is MANY – are more likely to tangle. That’s easy to demonstrate for yourself by changing backcast angles and tip paths.
I’m certain that the knot tightens on the next cast (or sometimes the retrieve). I don’t think that all wind knots are a result of tails. And of course not all tails result in wind knots.
The early/late tail for me isn’t actually all that obvious in real time. I find it hard to tell from the loop when the spike occurred with certainty. It’s much easier to watch the caster! Furthermore, just to complicate things, if I want to collapse the line/leader/fly using a tail, then I do so using a late spike (because it’s far easier to do!).
However some 10 years ago Alejandro and Mark manufactured tails while Aitor filmed them. Alejandro cast and Mark hauled. Unfortunately these videos are not available any more, which is a shame because they were quite revealing. I suppose they could be remade. Anyway it was quite clear from the early power spike that the wave, or “wave”, travelled further along the fly leg and as a result the intersection occurred later in the loop unrolling compared to the late spike which intersected almost immediately.
I recall seeing some frames from that experiment on the old Board recently.
Interesting observation on knots position. Likewise mine are near the end. I will have to ponder over the implications of that
Cheers,
Paul
Ah in the sequential stopping thread I mentioned I have met someone this week who turns the thumb inwards. That was a first for me. I never doubted you for an instant
Mine, which are frequent, tend to happen both in the leader and at the end of the tippet a few inches from the fly to near the joint. And occur usually in the situations working in the confines of a tight stream, where I have made corrections to avoid objects behind and trying to get closer to a mark in the same plane. This cancels any tentative grasp of technique and and the 5 bleeding whatevers, and throws the tracking out and results in a crash with the rod tip .... or the rod leg of the loop,
Not so much a 'Sexyloop', as a limp underpowered passion killer of a loop, drunkenly stumbling over its own trousers !
Talking under-powered ,I cant prove it, BUT...
I really feel that a lot of my knots don't come from the casting as such, but the result of the badly executed, smarty pants, under-powered, occasional attempt, at putting a crook into the right , or much more mundane and common in my case. From the above described tracking problem, and my general casting buffoonery. Resulting in the leader and tippet flopping exhausted in a loose spaghetti around the fly and scaring the bejesus out of anything in the vicinity with fins , and when lifted off, with the half drowned fly coming off last. Pulling through the loops creating a knot, and thus making a right bollocknaise of the whole affair.
Whoops there goes another furled leader!
Oh You casting Gods have no idea of life at the pit face of mediocrity !.
I've started making my own furled leaders for financial self preservation,
My fishing diary reads more like Bridget Jones's Poms fishing diary June 28th :2 hours fishing ,Gentle up stream breeze, Sunny, : lots of Mayflies, great hatch of Pale evening Dun,
2 bloody slimy Chub! 5 pathetic tiny Dace, 7 lost flies, 3 wind knots, (ruined furled leader), 1 lost trout... just swam off the hook.
Fell in .... again ( same place as last time,result=1 drowned phone), , got back to car and discovered I had a flat and no jack ( and dead phone!!)
Nights like this make the real crap ones seem bare-able,.and leads inexorably to the question... Does Jason Borger have nights like this?!!!
Knots in your leader and tippet is something I can claim to be, not so much an authority but at least accomplished at !
Thanks Tangled! Excellent video there from Graeme. Shows it very clearly. To tighten the knot the line needs to go backwards. Can happen with a next cast or a retrieve. That’s why when we see them happening on a delivery, it’s best to bring the line back slowly and not so quickly that the knot tightens. I’ve seen guys throw them and strip back quickly to sort the problem, but that makes the problem worse.
It suspect also that if the leader falls in a heap onto the water that a fly could land in the middle of the pile and sink through a loop. Retrieving would then make the knot.
I do Nothing everyday .
