Pattern recognition

[VGB]

It is amazing how many elements and variations that can be added to the initial task of the basic PULD.
ex. PU off-shoulder (back-hand).

I think that you are correct but it’s also true of any cast. I used to do accuracy by walking around a target and taking the shot from wherever my feet were, rather than set up in a classic stance with the wind in a favourable quarter. This type of practice was geared towards fishing instead of instructional techniques.

I think what I’m driving at is that we don’t need to teach a very specific model cast, an up down PULD for example, because we actually use a hugely generalised model with a vast number of possible variants out on the water. It’s come up on threads here before with Schema theory.

I would agree that you are correct for leisure anglers, competition and instructors may be different.

Regards

Vince

[Will]

Mmmmm…

Interesting.

I think I know what you mean, and can see that rather than teaching casts, we are teaching a set of skills which the caster then adapts to circumstances.

So, a nice set of skills might be:
Getting the line off the water
Loop control (size, shape, speed)
Loop control (trajectory, accuracy)

You can then put these skills together, and if you like make a nice PUALD.

I have had similar thoughts on Speys:

Good lifts
Moving line around under tension
Forming D-loops
Etc.

However, I do wonder if some of the “model casts” are actually good CLAs towards embedding the above skills. As long as we provide sufficient variation along the way then we’re all good?

I reserve the right to change my mind about this shortly.

W.

[VGB]

Straights and eights?

[Will]

Yup.

[Stoatstail50]

I’ve taught it exactly like that for a long time now Will, the model casts appear when they’re good and ready.

Teaching to a template or prototype pattern...(I’ve just googled it) is fine for CIs as Vince has suggested. However, we don’t need to teach to a template in order to develop a concept of pattern, even for instructors. In fact I suspect doing it that way is quite likely to reinforce the idea that there’s one true way, something I spend forever trying to undo.

And it’s Schmidts Schema…that’s from Google too, been there before.

[Will]

I’m the same for ohd casts Mark.

Tbh I find it harder on Speys.

I don’t teach a “one true way” on Speys either, but it’s tougher IMHO to isolate the different skills in a motivating way, without teaching a whole cast in some way. I’ll often teach the basic stages of the whole cast (e.g. a double Spey), but focus on the different elements in sequence (e.g. getting a good lift and not worrying about the rest until that element is there).

Once you have the skills for one Spey, they do transfer to subsequent ones to an extent, so learning does accelerate.

I think the “one shot deal” nature of Speys as opposed to the false-cast based skills of an ohd cast (where it’s easier to make continuous adjustments on a basis of feedback) set up their own teaching challenges.

I’m all ears to solutions.

[Paul Arden]

Hi Mark,

The reason I mention the highly specific lift from hoop back to hoop task is because it isolates and identifies problems. If we have a different hoop every cast it becomes harder to isolate these issues.

I have another concern. I think the best casters become the best casters by doing this and similar exercises. It achieves something else that is hard to learn otherwise, and that is efficiency of movement.

I’m not saying we can’t mix it up and I think it’s very important that we do.

Cheers, Paul

[Stoatstail50]

Yes, much easier for the instructor particularly if you’re looking to refine motion or maximise the efficiency of movement.

It’s inevitable that there will be some blocked activity but Wills point on the differences in retention is supported by so much data that it’s very hard to ignore.

That’s still not the point though, which is that, in order to establish an abstract concept of a pattern of movement in someone’s mind you don’t have to teach them to perform one specific version of it first. If you teach control skills first, the casts are very easy to assemble in all their variety. It increases the casters capacity to adapt to a changing environment right from the beginning.

This isn’t what we do for instructors or world class accuracy or distance competition casters… then you’re refining movement or maximising efficiency.

[Stoatstail50]

. the basic PULD.

Here’s the basic PULD in abstract:

A lift, a casting stroke, a pause, a casting stroke and a drift back to the surface.

I can think of gazillions of real world variations on this….which one is the basic PULD ?

[easterncaster]

. the basic PULD.

Here’s the basic PULD in abstract:

A lift, a casting stroke, a pause, a casting stroke and a drift back to the surface.

I can think of gazillions of real world variations on this….which one is the basic PULD ?

A: As you defined PULD, in a fairly vertical single plane.
That is the traditionally taught, foundation for all others.
But you knew that...