Sedotti demo

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Did y'all see this?

[Paul Arden]

No, thanks for posting! Not sure where to go with this! But maybe, if you were to give Mark some changes to experiment with, what would they be?

I’d pick rod loading, shoulder alignment, and haul, in that order. And finally: stopless. Not to change anything, some development, I agree with 80% of how he casts but the “how it works” I question. Our competition side of things, knows that we can make him a longer flycaster.

Mark was on the Board here for many years and I really like him. I’d love to meet up and I have a great deal of respect. But not driving through the shoulder alignment is obviously something that would make a significant difference. And not hauling to max haul? It might add inconsistencies while you learn it, but once you have learned it you will cast further.

Will people learn indirectly to cast further, as a result? Yes I think so. Can we teach Mark to throw further? Absolutely.

Cheers, Paul

[George C]

He's an interesting person. Very respected in the NE Saltwater Striped Bass scene for his early innovations dealing with the problems of fishing very large flies.
Here is a video of his famous back cast delivery....although I believe (based on a magazine article he wrote) he has modified his technique since.

[Graeme H]

I'd be interested in speaking with a beginner or intermediate level caster who has watched that 1st video with the aim of improving their cast. I'd like to know what they learnt, how their attempts to utilise those lessons went and whether they believed the lessons offered were clear. Basically, can they cast a full line now after watching the video ...

(I'm generally sceptical of anybody having great improvement by only watching videos, so this is not a criticism of Mark's video in particular. I know I struggled until someone besides me analysed my casting.)

Cheers,
Graeme

[jarmo]

I know I struggled until someone besides me analysed my casting.

Greetings Graeme!

May I enquire: what were the main observations they made?

At this point in my short career, I have trouble taking seriously any distance casting video which does not spend a considerable amount of time on tracking. I feel it is treated as an underlying assumption, while in reality it can be the hardest thing to get right. Especially when you involve your entire body in the casting stroke.

Have fun!

[Bernd Ziesche]

I am wondering, if Mark ever watches his own videos. He sais to load the rod during translation and unload it during rotation. Obviously the video shows precisely the opposite. Makes it hard to watch the whole video for me, but I did. Seems to be a nice enthusiastic guy, though.
Cheers
B

[Graeme H]

May I enquire: what were the main observations they made?

Hi Jarmo,

For my own casting, it was that my back cast was aimed too high and causing the tailing loop I could not remove (Morsie taught me that) and that I should place the butt of my rod against my forearm on the long back casts (Paul taught me that). Later, when I began the journey to my CCI, I made videos of myself casting and analysed those instead of watching someone else cast ...

I was being diplomatic but Bernd has nailed my observation: the video doesn't match the description. That often leads to confusion when someone is trying to learn from an instructional video because they don't know whether to watch the video or listen to the description.

I did note that Mark states he is not aware of his haul. That raises alarm bells for me because it's hard to teach someone if you aren't fully aware of everything you're doing yourself.

I also heard alarm bells when he talked about "casting by feel". As Vince and others have noted, "feel" is subjective and almost impossible to teach. It's tantamount to saying "I can't tell you when you're doing it right, but you'll feel it".

And "loading the rod" always gets me interested. There's a good reason why "loading the rod" is not one of the Five Essentials.

I'm sure he is a great caster and a great bloke. I am not a fan of that video though.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

What caught my eye in this video was how common much of his technique is... around here.

Elbow out, stops, deep load, translation... all very common.

I think it might be due to a big difference in tackle. Tackle for big tarpon is commonly still 12wt, but many new "tarpon" rods are now 11. These "light" rods are deliberately tough in the butt and commonly only one or two piece though.

I suspect it comes down to relative masses in the systems. In comp distance, the most mass that has to be accelerated is in the long flyline; the rod and "fly" are relatively light.

In tarpon, some saltwater (like Sedotti surf casting), and even Pike / Musky, the masses are almost opposite! In these cases the fly and the rod are much more challenging masses, where the lines, though heavier, are commonly short.

I know from repeated personal experience that the "correct" technique is very different and specific. I usually play or warm up with a MED, fluff, and my HT6. If I then switch to a different combo appropriate for fishing I can't cast for shit until I change gears substantially.

I've found it best to shelve my "comp" tackle before fishing trips or I do my casting a disservice.

[James9118]

In tarpon, some saltwater (like Sedotti surf casting), and even Pike / Musky, the masses are almost opposite! In these cases the fly and the rod are much more challenging masses, where the lines, though heavier, are commonly short.

I've found it best to shelve my "comp" tackle before fishing trips or I do my casting a disservice.

Hi Gary,

Obviously the cast works for the guy in the video, but it's not for me especially with saltwater gear. When I'm chucking big flies on heavy 6/0s with a 20 inch wire trace I want the rod well out of the way of all the metalwork. That isn't the case at all for either of the videos above - here the caster is relying on a horizontal off-set to avoid a collision. My own preference is to '170' with heavy gear in saltwater, which is essentially a more relaxed version of my competition cast.

James

[VGB]

I'd be interested in speaking with a beginner or intermediate level caster who has watched that 1st video with the aim of improving their cast. I'd like to know what they learnt, how their attempts to utilise those lessons went and whether they believed the lessons offered were clear. Basically, can they cast a full line now after watching the video ...

As a SL certified intermediate caster, I'll take that one on. As you've already pointed out, teaching from video or books has no feedback content and there's no means of adjusting wayward performance or conceptual understanding. Additionally, the information is couched in the frame of how the instructor views the world, it may not strike a chord with you as a student, interpersonal communication is key to any lesson.

Another issue is the volume of content; the demo and explanation took nearly 15 minutes instead of the 2 that we would probably take in a lesson. This was because of the superfluous technical justification that is used in videos to provide credibility for an invisible and highly critical audience. The student does not need all of this information to learn the movement and it will probably get in the way of his performance.

Finally, the fixation with building lessons around rod loading as the objective leads to logical inconsistencies in the explanation of the cast, requiring a bit of pseudoscience to hold the lesson together.

If I were a betting man, I would lay a shiny penny that he doesn't use the same delivery if you were face to face with him, YouTube is an artificial and alien world filled with experts.

Regards

Vince