Pull back

[Paul Arden]

Hi George,
I’ve been looking into the lacrosse parallel and was sent a video tonight from Val which I found very interesting. He writes:

This is a good and proper explanation/demonstration of a lacrosse pass which uses pull-back, which is very short and very abrupt. Everything is in line for brevity and accuracy. Start at 1:40 for explanation/demonsration. Watch his right hand and his use of a loose grip and finger closure for acceleration. Of course, it's easier to block the stick because your using bottom hand to aid in the block. The bottom hand mimes the fly casting haul by pulling down and starts by pointing the butt of the stick to the target.

Shooting, as opposed to passing, in lacrosse becomes a stopless 170 fly rod cast.

I see a lot of bottom hand blocking in this throw. But it’s difficult to see the finer points (at least on my phone!) And I spent a bit of time watching other videos but most seem to concentrate on shooting. But then I found this when discussing the throwing motion…

The other big part of your passing form is called the “wrist snap.” It is the last part of the throw where you quickly whip your wrists, almost like you are cracking a whip. This is the most complicated throw and takes many repetitions to get down fully.

(From https://laxweekly.com/lacrosse-passing/)

The things that keep me up at night

Cheers, Paul

[whinging pom]

I’ve watched those two videos over.. and I’m even more confused. I m really not getting this !!!

Here’s something for you teachers to imagine.. a challenge if you like.
You have this student who’s as dull as dishwater that’s been left in the sink overnight and gone cold and congealed.
The utter duffer of the forum. And as an extra challenge the dumb feck has but his foot down a rabbit hole and his legs in plaster.. he can go nowhere but sit and overthink things.

He wants to learn to feel pull back … what can he do trapped in normal house with normal shit around and no one to nag him, what fun games and exercises can you invent, to get him to appreciate what the hell this elusive truth is. Or is that too big an ask?!!


I wish I could say the lacrosse was my road to Damascus moment, but I feel like I’ve hit the end of a cul-de-sac instead.
Who’s up for the challenge?

Thanks
Limping Pom

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Pom

Have you got yourself a MPR? (Micro practice rod)
If yes, then do Paul's game of playing with only the red leader out the tip.
If no, then get one or get a rodtip you aren't too fond of, and some yarn, and play around with that instead.

Cheers
Lasse

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

How about just taking your flyrod, unstrung, and play with getting the most counterflex out of a single small forward stroke?

A hard stop will get you some. A hard stop with the slightest movement of your hand backwards immediately after the stop will get you a lot more.

Thats pull-back.

Disclaimer: make sure your rod is fit together tightly, and frequently check it. And I'm not responsible if you launch your tip into the wall.

[Graeme H]

Take a pencil and lightly tap the table in front of you.

First exercise is to tap the table with the pencil and leave it there. This is analogous to a cast without a pullback.

Second exercise is to tap the table with the pencil but immediately lift the pencil an inch off the table. The pencil only touches the table for a microsecond before the lift, enough to make a sound. This is analogous to a cast with a pullback.

When your student gets his legs out of plaster, go outside with a rod and imagine there is a wall in front of you and the pencil is now a rod. Do the same exercises, leaving the rod on the imaginary wall and then just tapping the imaginary wall with the rod but very slightly withdrawing the rod before anyone notices the rod leaning on the imaginary wall. (They'll think you're mad if they see that rod resting on the imaginary wall ... )

That little tap and withdraw is pullback.

Cheers,
Graeme

[whinging pom]

Wow thanks for the international response's!!!

Hi Pom

Have you got yourself a MPR? (Micro practice rod)
If yes, then do Paul's game of playing with only the red leader out the tip.
If no, then get one or get a rod tip you aren't too fond of, and some yarn, and play around with that instead.

Cheers
Lasse

i haven't got a MPR can you please recommend one to me.. Is there a HT mpr?( if not, why on earth not?)
(I guess pauls been prototyping one for the last six years )

A rod tip Im not fond of??? thats like asking a parent which child they favour least. I love all my green tubes equally

I do have a 2wt split cane tip and some egg yarn so i guess that will do it for now.?
im not sure about Pauls game or how i can relate it too my
set up...ill try searches on sexyloops but i usually end up in a rabbit hole and completely distracted... if you know a short cut it would help.
( im really trying to avoid more rabbit holes ).

How about just taking your flyrod, unstrung, and play with getting the most counterflex out of a single small forward stroke?

A hard stop will get you some. A hard stop with the slightest movement of your hand backwards immediately after the stop will get you a lot more.

Thats pull-back.

Disclaimer: make sure your rod is fit together tightly, and frequently check it. And I'm not responsible if you launch your tip into the wall.

I get the concept and will get chance to sit in the garden and try. I might even beable to Whoop some weed seed heads off at the same time.

I live in a very old workers cottage with low oak beams from days when tall English men were 5' 4"... even side casting a 6' rod in here is a logistical nightmare that will always end in tears or loud profanity at the very least.

Take a pencil and lightly tap the table in front of you.

First exercise is to tap the table with the pencil and leave it there. This is analogous to a cast without a pullback.

Second exercise is to tap the table with the pencil but immediately lift the pencil an inch off the table. The pencil only touches the table for a microsecond before the lift, enough to make a sound. This is analogous to a cast with a pullback.

When your student gets his legs out of plaster, go outside with a rod and imagine there is a wall in front of you and the pencil is now a rod. Do the same exercises, leaving the rod on the imaginary wall and then just tapping the imaginary wall with the rod but very slightly withdrawing the rod before anyone notices the rod leaning on the imaginary wall. (They'll think you're mad if they see that rod resting on the imaginary wall ... )

That little tap and withdraw is pullback.

Cheers,
Graeme

Graeme thankyou for politely putting the duffer in the third person...
That's a neat analogy with the pencil and ive been tapping away , again Ill get down the garden to a sunny seat I hope later with my crutches and a fly rod, erect my imaginary wall and put this into practice..

Its been a lot clearer anology idea for me than lacrosse, which on my screen I just couldn't see the movement .that then led me down another rabbit hole to end up watching you tube games of 'Shinty' ... my goodness that's a skilled and violent sport. Nutcases!
many thanks for the thoughtful responses and ideas chaps Ill go and put them into practice.
Pom

[Lasse Karlsson]

Wow thanks for the international response's!!!

Hi Pom

Have you got yourself a MPR? (Micro practice rod)
If yes, then do Paul's game of playing with only the red leader out the tip.
If no, then get one or get a rod tip you aren't too fond of, and some yarn, and play around with that instead.

Cheers
Lasse

i haven't got a MPR can you please recommend one to me.. Is there a HT mpr?( if not, why on earth not?)
(I guess pauls been prototyping one for the last six years )

A rod tip Im not fond of??? thats like asking a parent which child they favour least. I love all my green tubes equally

I do have a 2wt split cane tip and some egg yarn so i guess that will do it for now.?
im not sure about Pauls game or how i can relate it too my
set up...ill try searches on sexyloops but i usually end up in a rabbit hole and completely distracted... if you know a short cut it would help.
( im really trying to avoid more rabbit holes ).

Hi Pom

Pauls game was just the task he said you should try, casting leader only, short line, playing with it.

Not much reason to make a 6 year trial for a practice rod, Tim Rajeff nailed it with his MPR, its been copied ever since rod tip and eggyarn works fine too, actually might work better for this, as PB helps getting the line to unfurl, and eggyarn really is the worst, the wulff fly-o used eggyarn, and a very stiff rod
The MPR though is a great tool for practicing indoors

Cheers
Lasse