power vs speed

[Paul Arden]

Yep. And I don’t think there is a lot more. I don’t think Bernt is going to find another 5 metres for example. I think there is a physical limit of the line. There might be a little bit more but really I think it’s mostly now about consistency.

Anyway we know that low 130s are possible without the wind.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Yep. And I don’t think there is a lot more. I don’t think Bernt is going to find another 5 metres for example. I think there is a physical limit of the line. There might be a little bit more but really I think it’s mostly now about consistency.

Anyway we know that low 130s are possible without the wind.

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

I think we will see a 50 metre cast in the future. Technique and training will drive it.

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi John,

I’m sure we will see it outdoors, but those numbers are very distorted. I think the limitation is the line, and particularly the head length. It’s basically about head at the top of the loop, possibly with some running line, loop shape and speed. I don’t see another 30’ coming indoors. It’s a matter of cm now. To suddenly find another 10m for me, with this set-up, would require something quite extraordinary.

I actually think we have been close to the physical limits of this for quite some time. There is just a lot more people close to the limits and the wind is very much skewing the picture.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Hi Paul,

I agree, there are a few constraints, but we need to generate greater hand speed; that will establish the next performance step.

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi John,

This is where I don’t know. Let’s say we launch at 100mph, theory would be that 200mph would go further. However the unrolling of the loop is also constrained by the length of line that is launched. Throw it faster and it unrolls faster. It doesn’t travel any further (possibly?) and just gets there quicker. Maybe it will shoot more? More likely for me is it might shoot more after loop straight. But there is definitely diminishing returns in that. More likely is it will start to tuck.

So I think head length is the ultimate constraint here and I think we have reached, or are very close to reaching, those limits.

I like that the flyline is fixed as being the MED5. It’s the line that popularised this branch of the sport. It’s nice to have a benchmark for progress. And it’s great that everyone throws the same line. But it also comes with limitations.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Hi Paul,

Agree with your points about diminishing returns but I think it will come from line shoot.

It will be interesting to see, but the first step is to increase hand speed.

John

[Walter]

From a physics standpoint power is the amount of energy transferred in a given unit of time. Assuming the mass remains constant and that kinetic energy = .5 mv^2, an increase in power is an increase in speed. I think people when people talk about power they’re actually thinking about force or strength. Speed definitely trumps strength in this context.

I had a bit of a related discussion with someone recently. It’s not the average speed, it’s the peak speed. For example, ignoring tip path, there is no physical advantage in moving the line at 100 mph for the entire casting stroke vs ending the casting stroke with the line moving at 100 mph.

[Bianchetti Ivan]

Experience tells me that with training on body movement sequences you can improve your peak speed and you can add a few meters maybe one or two.

[Lasse Karlsson]

https://youtube.com/shorts/9H30ayRfgF0?feature=share

I have a feeling we'll see some injuries if we go this way of gaining handspeed

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

I’m not convinced. I think there is a relationship between haul speed, torque and line carry. Line carry trumps, then haul speed and lastly torque. And all bearing in mind we are creating a loop. I believe that the speed being discussed here is primarily resulting from torque. The problem with that is you open the loop from the bottom with counterflex.

Haul speed, sure. But it’s still marginal gains.

If it was truly about explosive power then why are “skinny” athletes highly competitive? Why can we be world champion in our late 50s? I really see it much more as being about refining technique around a certain line carry.

That’s not to say that we can’t throw further. If we could get rid of the dangle, if we could throw tighter loops, yes.

Anyway we shall see Speculating is fun!!

Cheers, Paul