Just the tip?

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Graeme,
We are basically on the same page. I know we both dont see this black or white....
Of course even when the line would be straight, the length of line as well as the line speed and the angle between the strsight line and tip path still have significant impact as we agree on.
I understand the desire to keep this simple, but this is possible in terms of understanding the impact of tip path in casting reality.

If the question would have been:
Does tip path influence line path?
Yes... to some degree and its lesser the further you go from tip position.
I am sure, you agree...
Cheers
B

[Graeme H]

Yep. No problems from me Bernd.

[VGB]

I agree with you about the need for control, but in my view a small wave in the rod leg does not really detract from that objective.

A small wave is the product of optimal damping, the speed accuracy trade off is the product of being human.

Regards

Vince

[Lasse Karlsson]

All else being sort of equal, I agree with Graeme.

Hi Lasse,
Of course you do. So do I.

And I bet you agree with me, that all else (tip path included) being equal, the angle of dangle to determine the resulting loop shape (better loop propagation).

It's just, that all else NEVER is nor will it ever be equal.

I am really not sure what this is good for?
The loop propagation we see can only be the outcome of a serious number of key configurations...

Definetly we both know, that "the line goes wherever the tip goes" (as for example Chico Fernandez said in his fine 2 tapes) was very wrong and not very helpful to learn of what really happens.

Just the tip?
Big big NO to me.
Regards
Bernd

Hi Bernd

I find your answer interesting, seen in the light of the video I posted, where all else being sort of equal actually happens, and tip path shows to be the big impact in that equation.

And na, angle of the dangle doesn't determine the loopshape when all else being equal. It comes from one of those things, mainly the tippath, so don't agree there.

I am quite sure that Matt was just looking to simplify for a better understanding. Lots of things factor in, but in a scale of things, its nice to know where to look first, before going down the list, hope you agree.

Cheers
Lasse

[Few]

Thanks Lasse,

I've written and deleted several responses because I don't want to come across as defensive or argumentative. You've captured the spirit of my intent well.

Having pondered the various helpful responses, I have a hard time imagining mechanisms for things other than the sequence of tip positions affecting the cast. Obviously the applied forces, and the angular accelerations, the rod stiffness, and a hundred other things matter, but I don't see how they affect what the line does other than by changing the sequence of tip positions. But I remain open to arguments that I'm on the wrong track!

As for the "what good is it?" question, for me it is enough for the question (and its answer) to be inherently interesting. If it also nudges me toward better casting, so much the better.

Few

[Few]

"I have a hard time imagining mechanisms for things other than the sequence of tip positions affecting the cast."

To avoid confusion: When saying this, I'm still assuming no hauling, and the initial state of the line prior to the cast is the same in all cases (for example straightened back cast of a particular length, parallel to the ground).

Few

[Paul Arden]

My answer stays the same. But the question was the same

[Bernd Ziesche]

I find your answer interesting, seen in the light of the video I posted, where all else being sort of equal actually happens, and tip path shows to be the big impact in that equation.

And na, angle of the dangle doesn't determine the loopshape when all else being equal. It comes from one of those things, mainly the tippath, so don't agree there.

Hi Lasse,
Watching that fine video, I see the "yellow" rod being a softer one. That slightly flattens the initial tip path (less rise). Thus the angle of dangle gets little smoother and I'd expect more rising fly-leg on the stiffer rod.
Exactly to be seen here:

Of course the differences aren't immense...
However, if one line would be horizontal in the starting position and the tip would rise in relation to that, we put impact on the size of dangle (thus the loop).

Of course I agree, that tip path has serious impact always and yes, looking here first is fine...

Nice to compare this also:

Cheers
B