does balancing a rod have and effect on casting?

[Paul Arden]

Typing with each hand?

[FishNoGeek]

We recently had an extended go - that blasted Amazon trip again - with an exceptionally light sample reel, the new Conflux: https://www.confluxreels.com/

The reel is almost entirely CF, and it's extremely light compared to the average reel on the market. At only 105g unlined, it's under half of most other reels in the 7/8wt range, not to mention tanky reels like some of the old Tibors and Islanders. Full write-up here: https://fall2023.ontheflymag.com/index.html?page=34#

I've always heard that you're supposed to balance your rig, but I've generally been skeptical. It seems like there's a broad range of what "balance" could mean, and as soon as you dive into the details, the conventional wisdom starts to look very shaky. Should it balance when the reel is unlined or fully lined? Let's say fully lined, since most of us wouldn't fish with an empty reel....okay, but you also don't fish with a reel where the line is completely spooled up. So should you strip half the line out and then weigh it? Most of the line? Only the first 30ft of line, in an attempt to align with AFFTA? Okay, but what if you're fishing a line that's 1.5x heavy?

It's actually kind of fun to start asking those questions right after somebody (usually in a shop or at a show) has just gotten done proclaiming (loudly and with authority) exactly how it should be done. Most of the time it's immediately revealed that they've never given real thought to any of those points, and that whatever age-old wisdom they were invoking was nothing more than what somebody once told them....loudly and with authority.

I try not to embarrass my friends like that, especially if they're just about to make a sale to a customer who's probably going to fish once or twice a year anyway. Save that for the arrogant mansplaining blowhards who really deserve a dent, then shamelessly enjoy your Schadenfreude.

I see that John W asked about the line early in the other thread, but it doesn't seem to have come up afterwards.

Me, I find that what the line weight is doing outside the rod tip is vastly more important for my casting than whether it's on the ground or on the reel, and that reel + rod balance can be changed dramatically by relatively incremental movements of my hand up or down the handle. As such, I'm inclined to write off reel weight as mostly unimportant for most practical fishing scenarios.....but I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts about how it might affect highly-technical casting sport situations. Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing!

Back to the Amazon experiment: like it says in the review, we made THOUSANDS of casts daily using rods with that light Conflux reel and all our heavier reels as well, switching back and forth multiple times each day. I honestly couldn't notice any difference whatsoever that could be attributed to reel weight, and neither did Austin. Line taper, line speed, length of line being carried, hand position....all of those things seem vastly more important.

I'm inclined to think that reel weight REALLY matters in three situations...

• on the sales counter

• if you're packing for a flight /trip with extreme weight restrictions

• if you're standing on a saltwater skiff all day waiting to cast, in which case a heavier reel is actually better - as Nate explains here:

....and as you've surely noticed, none of those have much to do with casting.

[Paul Arden]

Yep I agree with that, Brian. It’s the same with fly rods too. It’s possible to shave significant weight off the rod by fitting a light spacer for example. But the place where it matters is the top 2/3rs of the rod, making most difference at the rod tip.

Then you also hear that the perfect rod would have zero mass. That’s not true either, because unless you are Bernd, we would like our rods to bend when casting. This allows us to turn rotation at the handle into straightish line path at the tip. To do that with a very short line cast, eg just the leader, we need that rod to bend against its own mass.

I can’t find the photos now (or indeed remember what Board conversation caused me to do it) but I cast with 1/4 and 1/2kg disks from dumbbells, slid down the butt section to rest against reel. It was actually rather nice to cast. At the time I thought it might be a good idea to use to teach beginners but I haven’t tried that on them yet.

Cheers, Paul

[DryFly]

I´m a fan of lightweight reels, may be not the lightest possible but lighter than many fly fisher do.
( I never understand why are fly fisher using a 200 gramm casstte reel on a 9´#5 rod. )

I have tested different reel weights on #5, #7 and #10 rods.
I cast even without the reel on the rod.
In the higher classes 7 and 10 I found for me the middle weights to be fine.
On a 9´#7 RPL e.g. this would be around 150 - 160 gramm.
Even on the #10 I didn´t like e.g. the Tibor Everglades with its 250 gramm.
Casting the #7 and #10 without reel was also not comfortable.

The situation shown in the video above - why a rod should be in balance while waiting for a cast - I do have often while fishing for pike.
I don`t have to hold the rod in balance while waiting but while stripping the fly in very slowly. In this situation, I just slip my rod hand a bit forward to find the right balance, that means I have often the for finger just in front of the grip. As soon, as I get a take I give it a strip strike and my hand flows automatily on to the handel into fighting/casting position.
The same I have while waiting for a cast for bones when wading. The rods lies on one finger that is just in front of the handel.
Also when I´m walking with a light trout rod from one spot to the next the rod lies very relaxed on one finger. Where this is always depends on reel weight, rod lenght, material ( glass, carbon), tip weight. But even with a light reel this is not further up the rod than just in front off the handel.
Shifting the finger for just 2 cm will make a big difference for the reel weight.

There are some rods, that have realy terrible heavy reel seats.
E.g. my older Greys 7´#2 rod had a full aluminium reel seat weighting more than 40 gramm!! I cut it of ( its on a #8 glass rod now ) and use now small sliding rings on a cork spacer, saving more than 30 gramms.
Also the 7 piece Shakespeare Agility #5 ( the older black modell ) had much to large and heavy rings on it and an aluminium reel seat with 2 layers of metall! Even the spacer was a metall tube!! When I saw it of, it weighted 50 gramms incl. the piece of rod it was on and the glue inside.
Now I put on an aluminium sceleton seat with cork spacer and saved over 25 gramms.

Cheers
Reinhard

[Merlin]

You may ask John Waters about balance, it is a complex issue, and certainly not a static test one.

Merlin

[DryFly]

If you meen me: I have done my tests with different reel weights only while casting and fishing - no static tests - and found the results, that fits me.

Cheers
Reinhard