Question for the FFI MCI mentors and examiners

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Guys and Gals

Do anyone have a passing clip of task 2 in the MCI test. The task has been there since the revision in 2019, and call for 4 backcasts and 3 forwardcasts with a loop size 8 feet or greater, measured 3-4 feet behind the leading edge of the loop, when the nailknot passes the rodtip.
3/3 casts with 6 feet or greater and lastly 3/3 cast with 3 feet or less loops.

This is to be done with 50 feet of line, measured from feet to fluff, and ticking is not allowed.

I can't do it, and knowing I am not a good caster, I was just hoping to see someone else showing how its done

Cheers
Lasse

[Stoatstail50]

As far as I know Lasse….no one actually measures it in an assessment.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Mark

Yeah, doesn't matter that I used to when I was examining, I know, but the requirements are there, and if no one else measures, why have the requirements?

How do you examine that task then? Says three different sizes, are you happy with whatever? Seems a bit hmm, why pay alot to take a test that isn't examined as its written, makes you wonder...

Cheers
Lasse

[Stoatstail50]

Well, I think they’re there as a guide. Most assessors are going to guess, would you be able to consistently spot exactly 8’ in a live test? I’m sure I can’t. If you could, would you fail 7’ 11” or 2’9” or 6’1” ?

That kind of precision is a totally unreasonable expectation both for the caster and the assessor.

[Paul Arden]

Lasse’s next question is going to be is 7’11” possible?

I didn’t try it until Lasse mentioned it last time, and by the sounds of it not many people have. These tests are written by committee via email and not as a group on the water. I know because in one such committee. This is where a Conclave would really help to finalise things.

I remember being surprised to discover that a change in the CCI accuracy many years ago, the fly line is measured in such a way that the line is generally the perfect length to land straight into the first target without adjustments. I doubt this was intended.

I’m pretty sure when Ally wrote the AAPGAI Spey requirements no one pulled a tape measure out either

Cheers, Paul

[Stoatstail50]

I don’t think I know anyone who can accurately assess any loop size in real time Paul. Someone not brought up in feet and inches is going to find it difficult even if they could. Self assessing accurately in real time is probably impossible.

If you accept this then the task requirements become pretty woolly at the edges and operate as a guide not as a specific absolute requirement.

If I were mentoring this is what I would tell a candidate. The argument I suppose is that if this is just a guide, why doesn’t it say so? No idea…

Personally I don’t care, it’s never caused me a moments bother either mentoring or assessing.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Well, I think they’re there as a guide. Most assessors are going to guess, would you be able to consistently spot exactly 8’ in a live test? I’m sure I can’t. If you could, would you fail 7’ 11” or 2’9” or 6’1” ?

That kind of precision is a totally unreasonable expectation both for the caster and the assessor.

Hi Mark

How do you measure 7'11" ? You just told me no one measures...

Test asks for 8 feet or more, if they give me 6'1" which is damn easy to see, I would have to fail them. How high is the candidate? How long is their rod? Two very easy measurements to use when evaluating a candidates loops. Examiner places themselves off to the side, remember I did that with you? Judges if the loop in question meets the requirement( your test asked for app 8 feet pickup then increasingly narrower over 5-6 casts) so I would have passed you with a 7' 11" pickup, a 6'1' forward, and then 5', 4' and ending with 2'9".. new requirements is different. I haven't examined the new one, only went to the trouble of measuring as I was making video clips of each task to use in mentoring, found out I wasn't meeting the written requirements, and started practicing in earnest. Still can't do it after 10 months, have told the FFI 7 months ago and have gotten nothing. And everyone else I have asked have come up short. Now you tell me no one measures, and its unacceptable to ask that someone does. Seems very unprofessionel, but thats clearly just me.

There's a 100 page study guide you co authored, it goes into fine detail about what one should do to avoid ticking and what to do to produce 8 feet loops. Seems like its all theory and not practice. But no one measures right?
Is it just task 2, or is it also the rest?

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

I don’t think I know anyone who can accurately assess any loop size in real time Paul. Someone not brought up in feet and inches is going to find it difficult even if they could. Self assessing accurately in real time is probably impossible.

Hi Mark

Feet and inches can be translated to meters and centimeters, you do know that right? Its even in the test...

Task 2. Overhead Casts – Wide to Narrow Loops: Demonstrate casting a series of wide to medium to narrow loops. Line length shall be 50 ft. (15.2m).
• First backcast (pickup cast) will be wide.
• Three false casts for each loop size variation.

Required Performance Standards:
• General performance standards as previously described.
• There will be a distinct contrast between the specified loop sizes.
• Wide loops will be 8 ft. (2.4m) or more, medium will be approximately 6 ft. (1.8m) and narrow loops will be 3 ft. (0.9m) or less.
• The fly leg of the wide loops may be convex or straight (but not tailing).
• Please see the Loop Shape Diagrams appended to the Exam

Selfassesing in realtime is difficult, I compltly agree, thats why its a good thing to tape yourself, to check what the assessors see. Makes it easy to check. I would hope that assessors have experience in watching loops, can account for perspective and give an approximation of size. Otherwise why specify a certain point in a cast to measure?

When trying the task, what did you and Mike observe happening? I have a feeling this is the brick on a string allowances for the spey tasks again

Cheers
Lasse

[Stoatstail50]

Fishing atm Lasse…will attend to these matters of state later

[Stoatstail50]

How do you measure 7'11" ? You just told me no one measures...

I can’t measure it…don’t know anyone who can. If I could I’d have to be some sort of nit picking sociopath to fail someone who was casting an inch under 8’.

if they give me 6'1" which is damn easy to see, I would have to fail them.

If the request is for a 6’ loop then 6’ 1” is a pass. The issue is whether the assessor and the candidate can tell the difference between 6’1” and 5’9”. If this is a distinction which is easy for you too see I’m assuming you have special powers.

Now you tell me no one measures, and its unacceptable to ask that someone does. Seems very unprofessionel, but thats clearly just me.

I don’t believe I said it’s unacceptable, I think I said it’s impossible in real time. You can do as much jiggery pokery with video post performance afterwards as you like but that’s not available to assessors or candidates in the actual assessment.

With respect to those people standing in casting assessments being “professional” I believe the process is overwhelmingly carried out by volunteer amateurs.

Otherwise why specify a certain point in a cast to measure?

I’ll give you that. It is an arbitrary point in the process. You’d have to have eyesight sufficient to spot electrons in motion to get that nailed accurately.

You’ll have to ask Mike what he sees, I usually see really big almost non loops then smaller better controlled medium size loops then even smaller ones. For most SL casters a 3’ loop isn’t particularly narrow.

Having said all of that due to Covid lockdowns etc I stood in only one MCI test since 2020. I will not stand in another one.