How to cast a pointed loop?

[VGB]

Pointy loops is not just about distance

[George C]

For what it is worth, I have trouble with the question itself as it may reflect a misconception, and one I know screwed me up.

Seems to me that the question would be better phrased as “how do you form a pointed loop” .

We cast fly legs. A loop happens because we (and other forces) pull on to the front end of the thing we cast. Two different actions. Where the fly leg is going, where we decide to pull from, and how hard we pull are the primary determinants of what happens next.

The visual cue of a loop traveling through the air is a powerful but misleading one. It fools us hacks into thinking the loop is driving the cast and pulling everything else along behind it. We end up trying to put as much force into the loop as we can all while trying to keep the loop as small as we can. Getting debased of that idea is, I think, the first step in learning to throw a decent cast or a tight loop.

George

[Paul Arden]

Thanks George. I like that!

Cheers, Paul

[whinging pom]

No suggestions here, just an observation. When I see them in photos or watch the grownups throw them at the BFCC events they are not just a tight pointy loop. Below them on the rod leg is another crease/ fold that is an open obtuse angle. Together they looks like the loop has been divided into two and appears like the profile of a chisel tip. It’s like the more acute the angle of the loop the more obtuse the angle some distance back on the rod leg. Am I wrong in this?

I note on the image used to illustrate on Paul’s post there is also a terrific dolphin nose packed tight on the top of the loop. ( as well as that obtuse fold) what Is doing that??
Many thanks
Pom

[whinging pom]

Further: at a risk of looking really dumb, is the distance between the two angles and the setting of the lower angle , the counterflex?
Pom

[VGB]

Hi George

Seems to me that the question would be better phrased as “how do you form a pointed loop”

We cast fly legs. A loop happens because we (and other forces) pull on to the front end of the thing we cast. Two different actions. Where the fly leg is going, where we decide to pull from, and how hard we pull are the primary determinants of what happens next.

I agree that is the pertinent question but the answer you have provided is about what happens to the fly line not the casters actions leading to the outcome. May I suggest “how do you form a pointed loop” puts the emphasis in the right place?

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

Further: at a risk of looking really dumb, is the distance between the two angles and the setting of the lower angle , the counterflex?
Pom

Yes max counterflex is responsible for the bottom dip on the Sexyloops logo.
The very front point of the logo translates back to when the line started to slow, ie the point of loop formation. On a non-hauled cast this would be RSP. On a hauled cast…. It depends.

Cheers, Paul

[easterncaster]

Pointy loops:
Hmm... The rod has come straight (returned to an RSP) as close as possible (just below) to the oncoming straight'ish fly leg.

[Paul Arden]

Not necessarily. As long as there is sufficient line in the direction of the target and enough speed in the line then RSP can be below the line path.

Not sure if this will show it. But we certainly have seen “stopless” casts producing very pointed loops and RSP is well below fly leg path trajectory.

Cheers, Paul

PS this is the launch drill from the intermediate DH video. Normally my backcasts are higher and my forward casts are lower