Long leader nymphing - how to cast?

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

OK Folks...

So, whether it is accepted as flyfishing or not, and no matter what you call it... Euro, French, Spanish or whatever... there must be some do's and don'ts on how to lob, er, cast (cough) the fly, er, nymph (cough, cough)?

So... how would you teach someone (like me?) who may be able to cast somewhat but has never tried this technique?

Is there any other pre-existing form of fly casting where somewhat parallel instruction could be found?

It kinda looks like a form of water loading. But from behind, to present the fly, instead of a way to enhance a back cast?

Is there ever any false casting?

Always curios!

Thanks!

[Paul Arden]

Hi Gary,

Yes you can false cast and even double haul. It’s important to position the fly 180 degrees from target, especially if heavily weighted. It’s quite a “flicky” cast. Keep the rod high on delivery and most of the time you can fish with a straight arm (that’s the tiring part! I often see competitive fly fishers supporting their rod arm with their opposite arm, or changing hands).

Cheers, Paul

[Torsten]

I think it depends on the rig, if fly line and leader has a significant mass you can cast it like in traditional fly casting.

If you're lobbing a heavy fly on thin mono, then spin casting techniques are useful. False casting and double hauling seems to me inefficient, at least figure-8 like in traditional fly casting - you'd rather swing under the tip and then cast over the tip. Like skish accuracy in casting sport with a long pendulum. Just tried that with a clouser / 0,23mm mono at home with this technique - 30ft no big deal, I'm guessing I could cast even much further.

See also how Croston casts,

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Tortsen,

Thanks for that video!

That is very different than what I have seen on the water. He uses a definite back cast. What I have seen is a cast from a drift that ended behind the angler at the end of a "positioning" drift. He appears to be only fishing water in front - which actually looks to make the casting even more difficult!

Note that the guys who have been "teaching" me are not true master anglers - they just think they are!

[Paul Arden]

Under the tip, over the tip, is certainly a better way to go in general I think. If you’ve fished the fly downstream then I’d flick it out the water to where you want your backcast. If you want to reach a greater distance on the forward cast, with a small fly, then just like in fly casting you need to extend your backcast. A better approach would be to try to close the gap, but that’s not always possible.

Cheers, Paul

[rusty]

Furling and felt,

The longest I can justify is the 12’ salmon/steelhead tapered leader with some 25 lbs test tippet material. This means a 15’ tapered leader and I actually want to call it 18’ but, how to do-it-yourself is with a 3’ skagit “dredger” on the forward taper of the flyline which is also 15’ and of course is more specifically is for a 15’ rod.

This form of wetfly is also known as “swing” fishing which sort of falls under the category of “…is that fly-fishing?”

But, 15-foot leaders make excellent tapers on 9’ rods and since the invention of carbon fiber it also makes for excellent spell-casting if you fish with fluff…

Line, leader & fly
Synthetic or, artificial

[Paul Arden]

With French Nymphing originally no flyline was used outside the rod tip. So the leaders could be 30’. 10’ of that could be .10mm (7X) and 20’ of that could be .12 (6X) for easier handling.

Then in response to “is this fly fishing” FIPS made a rule that the leader couldn’t be longer than 2x the rod length. As a result of that RÍO made a very thin flyline, to get around the rule really, because you don’t want a weighty flyline when monofilament Nymphing.

Fortunately, unless we are competing, this 2x rod length or less rule doesn’t apply.

I think it depends how we grew up but for me on the reservoirs I would often fish leaders 22’ long with three flies. And have no problem controlling them. The standard rule for beginners in the UK is that the leader should be 1.5x the rod length. Of course there are many times when longer is better and some occasions when shorter is better.

A well/constructed leader (not a FNing leader!) can be cast to unroll using loops and no flyline. Even relatively long ones to around 20’.

When I was 16 I read an article in FFFT magazine I the UK where a chap was recommending 35’ leaders with two weighed Cased Caddis early season. So I went out and tried that. My goodness that was hard work

Cheers, Paul

[Torsten]

Hi Paul,

Then in response to “is this fly fishing” FIPS made a rule that the leader couldn’t be longer than 2x the rod length. As a result of that RÍO made a very thin flyline, to get around the rule really, because you don’t want a weighty flyline when monofilament Nymphing.

have you ever competed there?
Rules:
https://www.fips-mouche.com/rules/

The 0.55mm fly line sounds like an alibi. Wondering why they have banned shooting heads (?)
12 foot fly rods pole fishing

ARTICLE 26: COMPETITION FLY RODS
26.1. One conventional fly rod, not less than seven feet six inches/two hundred and twenty
nine centimetres and not more than twelve feet/three hundred and sixty-six centimetres
in length, may be used at one time. Competitors may have spare fly rods with them
(carried on their body or bank side assembled), as long as only one line is in the water.
However, when boat fishing, these must not be assembled nor the reel attached.
26.2. Competitors are responsible for carrying and protecting their own equipment during
the competition sessions.
ARTICLE 27: COMPETITION FLY LINES
27.1. Any factory made floating, sinking or sink tip Fly Line may be used, except for lead
core lines. Every fly line used in a FIPS-Mouche competition shall have a minimum
coated diameter of 0,55 mm (0.22”). Only fly lines meeting this requirement are
authorised for use in FIPS-Mouche competitions (not to fit in the 0,53 mm slot in the
gauge).
27.2. Competition fly lines must be a minimum length of twenty-two metres.
27.3. Shooting heads are not allowed.
27.4. Neither sinking nor floating devices may be added to fly lines.
27.5. One single loop is allowed at the end of the fly line, if desired. If a braided or
monofilament loop is used to connect the leader to the fly line, the maximum overall
length of such a connector may not exceed 10 cm.
18
ARTICLE 28: COMPETITION LEADERS
28.1. A single monofilament or poly leader, tippet included, may be used, with a maximum
total length of twice the length of the rod used.
28.2. Leaders may be knotted or knotless, and continuously tapered down or level. A single
loop of max. 10 cm length may only be used to connect a leader to a fly line. If the
leader is knotted, the minimum distance between the knots is 30 cm, hanging freely.
28.3. Neither sinking nor floating devices may be added to the leader
28.4. A maximum of 3 micro rings (leader rings) of a maximum outer diameter of 3 mm can
be used. A maximum of 3 knots can be joined at a micro ring, they are considered as
1 knot.
28.5. A dropper is an equal or smaller diameter monofilament side line to the leader used
solely to attach a second or third fly other than the point fly. Only droppers may be
used to attach flies whenever more than 1 fly is used by the competitor during that
competition. Droppers without fly attached are not allowed. Should a fish break off
one of the flies (snagging or double take) during playing the fish this should be seen
as “within the rules” and the catch should be registered

[VGB]

The 0.55mm fly line sounds like an alibi. Wondering why they have banned shooting heads (?)
12 foot fly rods pole fishing

11ft #2-4 rods are becoming commonplace, I see a lot of Vision Nymphmaniacs out there.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

have you ever competed there?

No I haven’t. But I have many friends who have or do.

Cheers, Paul