Feel

[VGB]

“Progress in Brain Research - Mind and Motion - The bidirectional link between thought and action”

Anybody got a spare copy?

PM incoming

[VGB]

A rushed forward stroke… cue: feel for the weight of the line with the tip of the rod and get it moving first.

A haul that rapidly accelerates at the beginning… cue “feel for the weight of the line with the line hand”

I see these issues with students who are trying to feel the rod load. It’s generally caused by a poor line layout behind them that they are wholly unaware of because they have never looked at their backcast.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

The issue for me is that feel is particular to casting, you won’t find a mention of it in Winkelmans or Schmidts books.

You need to look up “proprioception”. It’s described as the “second major type of [sensory] information”. Exteroception (vision and hearing) provides information about the environment and proprioception provides information about the body.
We all need both sources of information of course.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Of course we need both types of information Paul, sensory fusion assembles the most appropriate data to use for any given action and outcome.

Pullback. Feeling the bounce of the rod. Even remove the line and feel the bounce. Then try the same with the line out.

How does proprioception and exteroception fit into the exercise above, what element should I be focusing my attention on?

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

Before we go into this, can you/ do you perform pullback, Vince? I know it’s been discussed many times on the Board, but very few casters can and it’s not part of instructor exams. If you can do it, have you taught it and for what purpose?

Otherwise I need to fill all that information in and teach it first.

Thanks, Paul

[VGB]

I pull back on the rod to provide fine adjustment on fly first presentations, my cue is fly leg position and velocity. Also for overpowered curves and to force turnover on French leader/dry fly casts.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

And by pullback we are discussing pre-RSP as part of the Casting Stroke and not reverse movement of the rod just prior to loop straight?

Have you taught it?

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

I teach by what is happening to the line, what fishing purpose does your version of pullback have?

Regards

Vince

[VGB]

And by pullback we are discussing pre-RSP as part of the Casting Stroke and not reverse movement of the rod just prior to loop straight?

That’s not how I read this

viewtopic.php?p=3611&hilit=Pullback#p8606

Regards

Vince

[John Waters]

Hi Vince,

Thanks for your post.

"I read your list and it would appear that you were unable to throw for 50 years which I find hard to believe. 170 and proximal to distal were established topics of discussion on the board when I arrived here, sometime about 2013, and I guess had been on the table before then."

That is incorrect. I never said I could not cast. I said my performance was declining. Not being able to cast and casting shorter distances given the same constraints are two very, very different issues.
I said my technique would not allow me to redress that decline, so I investigated if that was the fact. It was, and I found my movement skill sets were deficient. My performance trend could not, and would not, change without addressing how I moved. The list I provided are some of the skills I needed. You may have others, if so please share them here. You've mentioned "170" and "proximal to distal". The 170 is a term only. To have any meaning in casting, it needs to be accompanied by a movement patterning and sequencing model. Please share the specific movement patterning and sequencing determinants you consider deliver maximum casting distance with 170? I would also welcome you sharing your views on how you believe each joint should move in your view of a proximal to distal movement pattern for fly distance. I'm really interested in the movement principles of distance casting you advocate, we can address constraints after the principles are established.

"I would bet you a shiny penny that you would not have an identical delivery solution to that seen in a standard event." I never said you would, did I?

"Nor would I expect you to get the same determinants, they are operating under different task, environmental and equipment constraints. Moreover, they are primarily engaged in the realms of skill acquisition, the students are often left to adapt those skills to their own particular performance needs." That was not the case with the survey. It had zilch to do with comparative responses.

"Maybe we are both getting old John because my recollection is that you have spent the last year or so asserting that competition and recreational anglers need identical skill sets but it now sounds as though you are saying that they are different skills sets. I agree, we are both getting old, BUT to conclude "now sounds as though you are saying that they are different skills sets" is not both invalid and incorrect, the skills are the same, the application differs.

Regarding your sighting to rings instruction, how do you instruct triangulation as the means of sighting the fly at various length stationary targets? Let's be specific and choose a 30 cm target at 8 metres and a 30 cm target at 15 metres.
What do you advise the caster fixate their gaze upon when teaching target accuracy? Tournament casters have used "quiet eye" for years, sometimes not on the target they are casting to. How do you instruct the use of "quiet eye" for target casting?

"Like distance, sighting to targets for competition anglers may involve similar but different instructional techniques and solutions but we are operating under different constraints, so that should be expected." Would you please explain the "similar but different instructional techniques and solutions" you are referring to?


John