casting a bamboo rod

[VGB]

the haul would accelerate it in the wrong direction.

Torsten

What direction should the haul go, to make it accelerate in the right direction?

Regards

Vince

[Stoatstail50]

the rod would act like a pulley

The rod tip ring acts as a diverter. If we move our hand holding the line x cms away from the rod tip the line will move x cms through the tip ring in whichever direction the tip is travelling. I think this is generally going to be interpreted as a force being directly applied to the line causing an acceleration. Stand to be corrected of course.

The relatively small compressive force at the tip resulting from the angle between the line and rod retards the unbending of the rod.

[Paul Arden]

I think I see Torsten’s point.

Doesn’t the elasticity of the rod absorb some of the haul’s direct acceleration effect?

The haul directly accelerates the line but the magnitude of that effect is not all directly transmitted to the line outside the tip if the line angle is less than 180 degrees.

The haul bends the rod as well as ‘directly’ increases line speed. When I haul early I’m likely going to tail because of it.
If I haul late I get delayed unloading and a longer ‘SLP’ because of it.

And, regarding the effect of the haul on conterflex and loop size, I understand the concept that using the haul allows one to achieve a certain line speed while putting less energy into bending the rod but is this all of it?
If I don’t release the haul and am still continuing it past RSP1 doesn’t this also increase rod leg tension with resultant direct effects on loop shape and indirect effects by blunting counter flex? Are either of these meaningful?

Thanks
George

That’s a pretty good summation George. The reason early hauling is more likely to tail is because it’s likely to end too soon. Particularly an aggressive haul. Then the tip rises when the haul finishes early and the tailing wave is created.

Merlin had a very good summation of the effects of different haul timings. That was probably the most comprehensive explanation I’ve seen. We should probably find that one and make it a “best answer”.

I definitely think that the effect on tip path as the rod is unloading needs more study. Potentially this is really one of the keys. If the haul is aggressive enough then it will be controlling the unloading of the rod, straightening the tip path. Grunde pointed this out to me in Scotland but also said it needs more study and isn’t certain yet.

But the haul’s primary purpose IMO is to directly increase line speed.

Hauling post RSP I believe does as you suggest. But if it’s an aggressive haul I don’t think the rod will reach RSP until it concludes. That stated, peak haul acceleration seems to occur earlier than we believe, around or just after MCL and that’s probably where we derive the most benefit. That said, then why does my little haul twist at the end result in, what I think to be, higher line speed?

Our understand has certainly come on a long way in the past 25 years and multiple times, but I still have some questions. Do we see the Dolphin Nose in a non hauled cast? I’m not talking about gentle side casts, but overhead casts? Lee Cummings taped the line to the rod tip and they weren’t getting the DN shape loops. And what the hell causes the “dolphin nose circle”? I’m certain that phenomenon is haul finish timing related.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

But the haul’s primary purpose IMO is to directly increase line speed.

Lee Cummings taped the line to the rod tip and they weren’t getting the DN shape loops. And what the hell causes the “dolphin nose circle”? I’m certain that phenomenon is haul finish timing related.

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul

Torsten claims first part is false....

I get DN shapes with the line tied to the tip? And dolphin circles in non hauled casts?

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Hi Lasse,

I think that’s because acceleration has a direction component.

Ok well that’s interesting. I’ve only seen the mini circles perhaps a dozen times. In my mind I imagine the tip slightly rising at the conclusion of the haul, occurring just prior to the rod tip departing from the line trajectory, pre RSP. But it could also be a disconnect between the end of the haul (line is faster than the rod tip) and the rod tip continuing to accelerate as the rod continues to unload.

The first would be tip path. The second would be how parts of the line experience different accelerations. I think that the second explanation is more likely, just because of how the circle appears as the loop unrolls.

How do you make them happen without hauling?

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Do we see the Dolphin Nose in a non hauled cast?

Yes

[Walter]

Acceleration in regards to change in velocity is a vector quantity since velocity is a vector quantity.

Acceleration in regards to change in speed is a scalar quantity since speed is a scalar.

[Walter]

Ron,

Line speed is a combination of tip speed and hauling speed.

There are several videos on SL and elsewhere that show hauling increase the bend in the rod and cause tailing loops.

The difference is casting with and without a haul is that with the haul the rod bends less than without the haul to achieve the same line speed. Merlin explained that mechanism but I just wanted to make sure you understood how it applies to the parts of the cast (stroke vs haul).

Walter

[Paul Arden]

Acceleration in regards to change in velocity is a vector quantity since velocity is a vector quantity.

Acceleration in regards to change in speed is a scalar quantity since speed is a scalar.

Ah yes – my mistake! Thanks

[Walter]

Paul,

I’ll overlook it this time.