Here's that thread I mentioned above.
It's gratifying that even some of the US swoffers are getting frustrated with the trend of short, dumpy heads being offered by the major line makers.
Cheers,
Graeme
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If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
Moderators: Sudesh Pursad, Morsie
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Paul Arden
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If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
That surprises me, I thought the stiffness purely came from the plastic mix. PVC is pretty versatile. But I'll have a chat to the guys at RIO this week. I'll also have a chat to Bruce. I'm not locked down to only one manufacturer. I haven't tried the new cores. AF in the very early days had a line with what appeared to be some sort of floss core. This was absolutely non-stretch. The problem was that the the lines had memory that you couldn't stretch out. Having a completely non-stretch line I don't think works. Maybe on a low-stretch core it's not possible to remove the harder tropical memory? Anyway that's all speculation. I'll find out.
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
Yes, please get me a non stretch core!
I think a lot of people don't like the idea because non stretch line has little shock absorption, so you can actually break off on a strip strike. I had one of those AF non stretch lines all those years ago, and it rocked, once I worked out that I needed to use a very long leader made of fairly light (stretchy) mono to avoid smash takes. I didn't have any problems with memory, but the line died when I used some kind of line treatment which made the surface sticky.
Just three days ago I was fishing a lake, and all the fish were on the far side of a weed line, 70' away. I missed a bunch through not being able to get a good hook set. A non stretch line would have been great there.
I have recently been using one of the new rio non stretch running lines on my shooting head system, and it seems like it might be the best of both worlds.
I think a lot of people don't like the idea because non stretch line has little shock absorption, so you can actually break off on a strip strike. I had one of those AF non stretch lines all those years ago, and it rocked, once I worked out that I needed to use a very long leader made of fairly light (stretchy) mono to avoid smash takes. I didn't have any problems with memory, but the line died when I used some kind of line treatment which made the surface sticky.
Just three days ago I was fishing a lake, and all the fish were on the far side of a weed line, 70' away. I missed a bunch through not being able to get a good hook set. A non stretch line would have been great there.
I have recently been using one of the new rio non stretch running lines on my shooting head system, and it seems like it might be the best of both worlds.
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
I'd like Rio to offer the technical tarpon line down to a 7wt.
Game over.
Game over.
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
Good suggestion Mark but then it couldn't be called a Technical Tarpon line because everyone knows that you don't fish for tarpon with 7's...........
In the US, which is by far the largest market for saltwater fly lines I reckon 98% of anglers use full floaters. I've seen it out here with people turning up to fish Great Barrier Reef with reels loaded only with floating lines. And very knowledgeable anglers at that who just would not use sinking or intermediate lines. Tough week for them.
Been down this path many times and its a source of such frustration I have given up making suggestions. Lines are made for average fly fishers and average fly casters, the sort of people who would never read this web site or pick up a fly rod to practise their casting, who would struggle to hit 50ft etc etc etc. When the original outbound was released with its 37.5 ft head most casters couldn't cope with it so they produced the Outbound short, most casters love it and sales skyrocketed. Good casters unfortunately can mostly adapt to using inadequate fly lines. But in the end its all about the bottom line. Most casters in the world are crap casters and most people are fishing at 20-50 feet with 50 being exceptional.I am hoping the Rio permit line comes out in an intermediate tipped version. The problem of course is that no one in the US uses an intermediate tipped line for their permit fishing. We certainly do in Australia but the number of permit fishermen here is less than 50. Stiffness comes from the core, hardness comes from the finish.
Low stretch lines in saltwater can be nasty things. Airflow low stretch sinker meets mackerel and the fly line is fused into the strippee.
Morsie
In the US, which is by far the largest market for saltwater fly lines I reckon 98% of anglers use full floaters. I've seen it out here with people turning up to fish Great Barrier Reef with reels loaded only with floating lines. And very knowledgeable anglers at that who just would not use sinking or intermediate lines. Tough week for them.
Been down this path many times and its a source of such frustration I have given up making suggestions. Lines are made for average fly fishers and average fly casters, the sort of people who would never read this web site or pick up a fly rod to practise their casting, who would struggle to hit 50ft etc etc etc. When the original outbound was released with its 37.5 ft head most casters couldn't cope with it so they produced the Outbound short, most casters love it and sales skyrocketed. Good casters unfortunately can mostly adapt to using inadequate fly lines. But in the end its all about the bottom line. Most casters in the world are crap casters and most people are fishing at 20-50 feet with 50 being exceptional.I am hoping the Rio permit line comes out in an intermediate tipped version. The problem of course is that no one in the US uses an intermediate tipped line for their permit fishing. We certainly do in Australia but the number of permit fishermen here is less than 50. Stiffness comes from the core, hardness comes from the finish.
Low stretch lines in saltwater can be nasty things. Airflow low stretch sinker meets mackerel and the fly line is fused into the strippee.
Morsie
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.
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Paul Arden
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If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
I don't think that's the core Morsie, that's the barstool coating. Rio/SA/Cortland/Northern Sports use PVC. barstool use polyurethane. Monic are also polyurethane too I believe.
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
They use that coating BECAUSE of the core Paul. Its the only coating that will adhere to the core, and that coating has no lubricants in it, its dry and it burns like fuck. Its also zero stretch. The new Rio lines are not zero stretch, they are low stretch at just under 10%.
Morsie
Morsie
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
I designed a line a few years ago as a specialist saltwater line for Australia. It had a clearish intermediate head (braided core with a clear coating) that was 47 ft long with a textured floating running line. It was made by Cortland for us and came in 4 weights 8-11. When it first came out most could not cast it at all because the head was too long. It gradually gained some popularity, I still have a few of them. Bloody good line but you had to be an above average caster to use it. Most people THINK they are above average but must live their lives in a closet somewhere.
Morsie
Morsie
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
I'm guessing it's a closet situated by a gurgling trout stream somewhere in the US …Morsie wrote:Most people THINK they are above average but must live their lives in a closet somewhere.
Morsie
Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
If I could design a “tropical” saltwater fly line ....
No it applies very much to the salt. Their casting works just fine on a small trout stream.
Morsie
Morsie
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.