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Overpowered Curve

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Paul Arden
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#31

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:53 pm

I don’t agree with the original premise of the article that Torque Twist generates greater rod loading. I think, rather, it’s forced unloading, in the same way that we use pull-back or “reversed torque” to force the rod to unload.

The rest of it is fairly straightforward although you might have to read it a few times :p

When I read Al’s instructions I think he is using TT with the idea of getting additional rod loading when his normal stroke is restricted. However if you think of it as forced unloading then you have a much wider field of application.

When, for example, I make the PUALD Shooting “Snakehead” Shot, I get several more metres distance with TT. When I want to place a fly down first before the line, then the only way I can do it at distance (say 20m) is with TT (or Pull-back).

Basically we have higher line speed with TT, but not from increased rod loading, which is normally a Red Herring as we know.

When was this written, Lasse? I’ll try to get hold of Al to see where he is on this nowadays. I’ll also shoot some video - if I can remember to take my white Instructor rod fishing with me :p

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#32

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:40 pm

I like to keep the red herring abay and think of it as a faster way of rotating the rod, giving higher line velocity, since the tip moves faster.... 😉

Al wrote the book in 2006, say hi from me please 😊

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Re: Overpowered Curve

#33

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:00 pm

Isn't TT a common component in Spey casting?

I watched a demo by Leslie Holmes years ago and he incorporated it into the demo. When I asked if it was applicable to single hand casts he said yes, but that the longer the rod the more apparent the effect.

Btw... he attributed the improved response of the rod to stiffening of the blank due to torsion of the longitudinal fibers.

A question for Paul... when you emphasize an "outward" movement of the hand, are you meaning forward motion like a stab, or do you mean outward as in away from your side?

I'm guessing the former.
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#34

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:21 pm

The second Gary. If you turn your wrist only then the rod tip curves inwards so you have to compensate for this by pushing slightly outwards/ away from the body. you can certainly stab outwards (Thrust) - and it's more natural to do so - but I'm mostly concerned about tip path/tracking.

I'll shoot some video Lasse, because that's not what I'm discussing :laugh: However unfortunately Al is talking about applying the twist after the rod passes 12 o clock, which is early, so in that case maybe. I'm not; I'm purely talking about using Torque Twist as opposed to Pull-Back. That's where I find the real benefits.

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Re: Overpowered Curve

#35

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:13 pm

Looking forward to the video, quite sure you and Al are talking about the same, remember its written before high speed cameras was in everyones pocket, back then 60 fps was huge and in crap resolution 😉
And you might find out it is what you're discussing, and if not I'll learn something new and thats exciting, so get that white rod and everyones mobiles and shoot something! And from several anglers 😎

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Lasse

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Re: Overpowered Curve

#36

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:07 pm

I don't find a need to move my hand out if my timing is right.

Maybe, if your tip is twisting inward you are rotating your wrist too much and too late?

Can't torque can be applied to the butt of the blank before the top has begun to unload?

Delaying wrist rotation to the top is how I create curves.

At least that is how it feels to me?
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#37

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:15 am

Hi Gary, I can see that it depends at the angle your wrist is at. When I come forwards my wrist is cocked back like throwing a ball. Consequently when I turn my wrist the thumb travels around in a circle. Il have to have a play with different grips and so on.

Cheers, Paul
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