Double Haul timing

[Paul Arden]

How’s this working out for you, Bart?

[Boisker]

I’m not really sure what this has to do with haul timing... maybe if I could follow it I would
... but Vince’s 2 YouTube clips were great

[Lasse Karlsson]

This wouldn't be sexyloops, if a tread didn't go off in weird directions

I think only the 88 page one about fly-lines and bullets back in the day stayed some what on track

Haul timing, James covered that early on

Cheers
Lasse

[Torsten]

In my opinion it would sense to moderate the thread and split it up into "Double haul timing" and "Loop propagation" and move that to Technical Analysis. Only a few postings are useful for Bart.

James:

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is tension in the fly-leg, it's just that it's not from the source which Spolek describes and neither does it have the magnitude that is proposed.

Actually, Spolek writes nothing about tension (but you can derive that from this model). I've also the impression that you're reading a different paper. As Daniel has mentioned - I'm referring to a tethered cast - no line shooting.

Paul:

Alternatively how about a head split in two, separated by a piece of coloured elastic? The stretch in the elastic showing the varying tension as the loop unrolls.

Indeed - sounds like a good idea.

For showing top leg acceleration - if we can't cast in vacuum - we could alternatively use such a steep taper line as Spolek has written. Another idea would be a very dense line (less air friction). I remember it was quite easily possible to produce a cracking sound with the T120 line (when missing the release), so I'd expect here a fly acceleration.
Maybe Gordy knows a good experiment for this.

Thanks,
Torsten

[Boisker]

This wouldn't be sexyloops, if a tread didn't go off in weird directions

I think only the 88 page one about fly-lines and bullets back in the day stayed some what on track

Haul timing, James covered that early on

Cheers
Lasse

Only joking Lasse
I just wish I could follow some of it better
Certainly SL always makes a poisitve change from the U.K. forum and the ...”who needs to practice casting..” attitude

[Lee Cummings]

Alternatively how about a head split in two, separated by a piece of coloured elastic? The stretch in the elastic showing the varying tension as the loop unrolls.

Cheers, Paul

For what it’s worth i did once create a multi section shooting head made from five 8ft pieces of thick salmon line, each of these sections was joined with approx 2.5ft of 30lb shooting line in between.

It was an experiment to myself about learning of tension increase as increased mass enters the loop.
When it was cast that head kinda rumbled back through the rod during unroll as each thick section made for the loop.

It was also good for setting up good swing layouts for fishing where you could choose to mend directly to the first section nearest or the fifth one furthest away or of course, any in between.

[Geenomad]

I’m not really sure what this has to do with haul timing... maybe if I could follow it I would
... but Vince’s 2 YouTube clips were great

Matt. The first video shows the tension effect of the fly leg pulling on the rod leg. Takes the slack out and lifts it.

The second video of an under powered cast appears to show the rod leg being unable to return the favour. The fly leg loses tension when it loses energy. The rod leg shows no sign of taking out the resulting slack.

Torsten. I'm happy to see the thread or parts thereof renamed and moved to technical analysis.

I'd suggest that for the purposes of fly casting there are three hurdles the analysis needs to clear. 1) That it improves our understanding of how a fly cast works. 2) That it consequently informs us of how to optimise our casting - do's and don'ts if you like.

The third hurdle is to establish narrative continuity a) between 1) and 2), b) to be consistent with other knowledge about fly casting and thus c) to make the knowledge assessable to interested readers.

The disagreement between Camp 1 (Loopies) and Camp 2 (Linies) certainly fails to clear the third hurdle. I'll put the two fundamental questions (as I see them) here again.

What powers turnover?

What can we do about it to optimise our casting?

The Linies version clears all three hurdles imho. The Loopies version has said little or nothing about the second question that I am aware of.

Cheers
Mark

[VGB]

To replicate Spoleks vacuum prediction, you would need to remove the leader and cast with no pullback. The initial launch speed would have to be quite moderate and line length would need to be matched to the graph. I have a #9 intermediate I could try with at the end of the week, when I am back home. I think I could make it crack or not depending on the stroke. It would be worth having a few people try it so that there's some independence to the testing.

Vince

[VGB]

The Spolek cast was about 60ft of line with a 4 m/s launch speed for the DT. The line would hit the ground almost straight after loop formation, regardless of being in a vacuum or not.

Vince

[Paul Arden]

That sounds very interesting Lee. It would be interesting to high speed video such a cast to see if or how the fly leg varies in velocity.

Maybe we can do this in Cumbria? Do you still have the clunky beast?

Cheers, Paul