FFI CI exam Tailing loops

[Paul Arden]

For me it depends. Sometimes teaching a hard stop is the answer, it’s often a quick fix for beginners. Sometimes the squeeze-stop is better. Sometimes removing the hard stop is the answer. Or teaching pull-back or stopless. The stop is usually not just a stop but a crisp acceleration at the stop - put the rod butt in your hand and watch what happens to the angle change when you squeeze your grip.

Having said that I agree with Lasse in that it’s usually better to concentrate on teaching force application rather than the stop. After all, that’s the bit that matters. The “Hard Stop” which is good for accuracy causes problems for distance casting - and is one of the sources of tails. When someone reaches this level of casting ability I introduce three stops: the Hard Stop - which they already know, Stopless and Pull-Back.

I know some instructors who consider the Stop to be an “Essential”, I consider it a tool. Sometimes it’s the right tool for the job and sometimes it’s the wrong tool.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

How do you identify and fix Creep, Bart?

[bartdezwaan]

How do you identify and fix Creep, Bart?

I have to confess that my limited experience becomes evident here. In the last 10 years my focus was on distance casting and not instruction.
Although I have been helping people because they asked, I have not presented myself as an instructor.
The people that asked me for advice where more advanced casters. I did not notice a lot of creep or did not focus on it (which might be my fault).
That said I have to mostly rely on the theory so my answers will be pretty lame.

Identify Creep
Not to long ago it became clear to me (another confession) that creep is: Rotating the rod in the direction of the next cast, while the line is still unrolling.
That's what I would pay attention to now if I see someone throw a tail.
Back in the days when I was a member of the EFFA I think drag was also been seen as creep. Everything that makes your casting stroke more limited.
It's only when I started training for the FFI that it became clear to me that only the rotation part is included in the definition.

Fixing Creep
If I would have to fix creep I would start with having the student look at there backcast and rod.
When that does not work I would try the things mentioned in the CI study materials. Let the student say the words stop and cast or block the rod with my hand.

In about a year I might have formed more opinions, based on experience.

Do you think you see creep more with beginners or experienced casters? Or is the ratio the same?

Cheers, Bart

[Paul Arden]

Ok I would first look at what Creep really is from an Instructor’s point of view and not the various definitions that haven’t nailed it.

Bill Gammel and his father first came up with the term. I asked Bill how he identified Creep. He told me this...

He asks the student to pause longer between strokes. If the Creep gets worse then it’s Creep. If instead he pauses and then starts the stroke slowly then it was either a timing issue and/or is applying forward Drift inappropriately.

Now I think that’s really important to understand. Because this fault is something that the student is unaware of. It is the caster thinking so much about the target, or the next cast that he is about to make, that instead of pausing he unintentionally “leans the rod towards it”. It’s an involuntary action. It’s a very human action and you can see it in many things we do. For example tell someone you are about to ask them to stand up when you blow a whistle and without thinking they might lean forwards in anticipation.

Now as an instructor it’s important to know the causes of actions that create problems in the cast. For example in the case above, Creep has a different fix to improperly applied Forward Drift or poor timing.

The simple fix is to have the student caster watch his hand during the pause. This may only fix creep while he is watching his hand, but with practise the problem can be fixed this way.

Another fix is to introduce Drift. Rear drift is the opposite to forward Creep. From a teaching perspective it’s quite nice to solve something negative by teaching something positive.

I never see Creep with beginners. I see it as an Intermediate and even an advanced problem. You can find it incorporated into a really fine cast, one that doesn’t tail and is even quite sexy.

One interesting and quite common example is a caster with a wide loop backcast, Creep, and then a tight forward cast. If you fix the backcast then the forward cast tails. So you have to fix the backcast and then fix Creep.

Cheers, Paul

[bartdezwaan]

Thanks for the explanation Paul. Must appreciated!

Cheers, Bart

[Graeme H]

One of my mates casts so beautifully that he was the inspiration for me to become the best caster I could be. It was only after I started teaching that I realised he has numerous faults, one of which is a chronic creep. He never tails though and he still makes some of the sexiest loops I've seen.

Neither he nor I (nor Morsie) want to change a thing about his cast. His cast is not broken ...

Cheers,
Graeme

[Boisker]

Good thread.... I’m just about to start on my AAPGAI... first session with mentor in a couple of weeks... so great to see some detail on instruction.

Quick question... is drift something that ‘expert’ casters would incorporate in pretty much all casts? I’ve noticed I tend to flip backwards and forwards, sometimes drifting on all and then another session I’ll suddenly notice I’m hardly drifting at all.

[Paul Arden]

No, not all casts certainly. This demands a full answer, Matt. I’ll give you my opinion tomorrow or Monday. I’m on a lifesaving course this weekend, totally shagged and have an even longer day tomorrow

Cheers, Paul

[Boisker]

Cheers Paul... no rush

[Paul Arden]

Right I’m back. I’m now a qualified lifesaver

Drift is an interesting one. Nowadays I think it is far less important than I once thought! I think it’s important to be able to Drift of course, for widening and occasionally narrowing available Casting Arc, repositioning the rod to a more effective position and of course for change of loop plane casts, Belgian and so on.

However for cushioning the rod and Improved timing I think it’s a personal choice whether or not to employ the technique. It’s certainly not necessary for all casts. When I started using the 170 technique drift to widen the arc became unnecessary.

So I would say that it’s essential to learn but certainly not necessary to apply to all casts.

With regards AAPGAI it’s not necessary.

Cheers, Paul