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Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

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jarmo
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#21

Post by jarmo » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:42 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:59 am
The key for longer carries is, to accelerate the back cast as straight as possible and to lift the tip POST RSP1 BY DRIFT!
Having started my fly fishing journey with spey casting, I have imagined this technique of casting to be very similar to the moves in a (straight-line sweep) spey cast: sweep, drift to key position, fwd cast. Perhaps that is why I find this style more effortless than vertical overhead, especially due to the ease of incorporating smooth power from elbow movement on the backcast. And perhaps, just perhaps, because of this relationship I have it approximately correct. But then there is the issue of tracking "well enough" ... for certain testing situations. :)

Some instructors teach spey casting by starting with an elliptical cast and then letting the anchor land.
Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:59 am
CONSTANT TENSION casting to me sounds like nonsense.
This is a can of worms. Instead of getting my hands all dirty, I can just lift the lid. Here is the FFI MCI on the water -tasks video section on D- vs V-loop:



And here is a much longer video of two ways to cast a skagit line:



I have played with these "constant tension" casts. I certainly can not do them for all cast/line length combos. For example, with an SH rod, and any longer line, I can not do a clean D-loop snap-t. I admit that I have only tried with incline sweep. I would find it weird to dip during the sweep, but perhaps that is what it takes. Still, even in this case, I at least imagine that striving towards a D yields better lifting power (for heavy flies / sink tips). Even if the result is not a perfect, clean D.

For some other casts, now that I have decent video equipment, the jury will soon give a verdict.

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Carol
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#22

Post by Carol » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:05 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:59 am
Hi everyone,
Mostly there is a lot of confusion coming along with the Hans Gebetsroither style as soon as non native German speaking experts demonstrate that style. This always reminds me well of how much effort it takes to learn a second language and study the technical details of fly casting being offered in that language!
Sometimes it's quite challenging simply trying to picture the movements people try to convey in writing, even when it's in one's native tongue. If it's a new concept, it is harder. Then add regional colloquialisms and it's even harder. Then, when it's the speaker/writer's second language, it can get really tough. You do a good job and I'm usually able to figure it out. We Americans are, typically, not forced to learn a second language at an early age. It's unfortunate because it puts us at a distinct disadvantage.

I'm not to the level of learning spey techniques yet -- I'm just trying to get through the CI exam first (almost there). Then I'll move on and begin learning single-hand spey casts. I guess this is a good cast to work on as a cross-over.
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

jarmo
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#23

Post by jarmo » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:23 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:59 am
CONSTANT TENSION casting to me sounds like nonsense.
Since I can not edit my post above: I have heard many different names for this concept. Perhaps the more easily accepted ones are those including expressions like "continuous motion" and/or "continuous load" - instead of the word "constant" - as Carol also suggested above.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#24

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:26 pm

Thanks for the links to those vids, Jarmo.

Watching the comments on the second one was interesting. Seems most people just believe what they want to believe and like that video.

I am not starting to argue about the D loading the rod as claimed in that video or this load to be continously thru the whole cast. :whistle: :666: :ninja:

In my point of view there is a reason why some of the line passes the rod tip into the D. That reason is the process of slowing (stopping) the tip. There is no "slow acceleration" (whatever that is, but let's assume he meant a low rate of acceleration) thruout the whole cast. The back cast (D) and forward cast are both including positive and negative acceleration as always.
Personally I prefer to increase the rate of acceleration for the final speed up into the D.

Continues rod motion cast sounds better to me.
Regards
B
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

Dirk le Roux
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#25

Post by Dirk le Roux » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:46 am

Hi Bernd

Thank you for elucidating the history. I think it is important to be truthful with these things but in a way, it may be too late. The term "Belgian Cast" is out there and few bother to be precise as to who it really came from and what the original cast actually was. Now even the Island Style version they call a Belgian Cast.

It's like what happened with the Fettuccine Alfredo recipe (originally just Pasta Al Burro) once the Americans got hold of it. Never the same anymore, but only the Italians get upset about that.

Things get bastardised, or is it rather that things evolve? It is now extremely rare to see an original guise Pheasant Tail Nymph, the way Frank Sawyer tied them. And do we even know for sure who came up with the Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear Nymph? And how many "GRHE" Nymphs these days do sport actual hare's ear fur?
Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:59 am
CONSTANT TENSION casting to me sounds like nonsense. Maybe someone can explain me the difference to the rest of casting styles? (Yes, I watched Peter Hayse trying to explain it in the video being linked in this thread, but yet don't follow his explanation.)
This term is already out there, too. To me, it is OK if understood as rather an approach (than a particular style) common to casts such as the Gebetsroither/Austrian/Belgian/TLT/Reggae/whatever, aiming to constantly keep some tension in the cast, as opposed to keeping a constant amount of tension throughout, to mitigate shocks that appear with stop-start casting and to afford enhanced control. I like your "continuous rod motion" term too. In that sense, a standard overhead cast with the right sort of drift and creep can accomplish the same, even without differing planes.

All the best,
Dirk

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