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Tension Discontinuity /DN

Moderator: Torsten

Paul Arden
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Location: Belum Rainforest
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Tension Discontinuity /DN

Hi Merlin,

I’ve been spending my afternoon chilling out and reading this http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/mer ... %20use.pdf

Can I ask about Tension Discontinuity. Is something that occurs at loop formation? Or is there some other some other factor involved here?

You know for a paper like this and with some of the readership here it might be very useful to explain every equation in words. Particularly for those of us who haven’t used momentum equations for 30 years or more. I know it’s a pain to make everything in long hand but I think that wound be helpful. I’ve found myself with pen and ink. I think it would go a long way to making it more accessible.

Also I think there are some key points here that could be highlighted. There are some gems that need emphasising. Anyway I’ll drop you an email on this.

So what are the causes of Tension Discontinuity? Lee once told me he reduced the DN effect by taping the line to the rod tip.

Thanks,
Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Merlin
Posts: 1588
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: France

Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

Hi Paul

The topic is pretty difficult. Some speak of a "singular" point within the loop which would correspond to a so called discontinuity in tension. I have to re read articles again. The condition for the singularity is described (I shall elaborate on it later), and there are specific parameters to match to get it. If not the "loop" of the string shooter is pear shaped. Discontinuity in tension is hard to figure out since the medium (a string) is continuous. I looked after examples on the web and found nothing. The condition given relates to actual tension level and inertial forces but as such it does not speak to us.

I can try to re write the article with more words than equations ( ) and describing the case of the singularity will be a challenge. I have to write it for me first and see if I follow the publication without interpretation. When I tried to get some explanations from the French University who published on a string shooter, I hardly got a response.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

Torsten
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:34 pm

Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

Hi Paul,

in this case Daniel has used the simple 1-D fly line model which consists of a straight fly leg, a straight rod leg and a semicircular transition (the loop front). Other authors made the same assumptions, I think there is a paper from Perkins/Gatti-Bono with the same subject. I think the alternative approach from Daniel is interesting (directly from momentum). That's a bit tricky, because parts of the fly line are variable mass systems. You can also derive the equations of motion from the energy e.g. with the Lagrangian as starting point.

The disadvantage is the model itself, the assumption of a semicircular loop front is basically wrong - in the real world the line particles are not constrained to move along a circle. Also you can't describe non-straight rod/fly legs. For that you need more complex models and simulations with more degrees of freedom.

For tension variations I'd expect the first if there are wrinkles / wavy shapes in the fly leg. When I have more time to work further on the fly line simulation I'll try to visualize the tension somehow.

Torsten.

Graeme H
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:54 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

Torsten wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:38 pm
The disadvantage is the model itself, the assumption of a semicircular loop front is basically wrong - in the real world the line particles are not constrained to move along a circle.
The line particles never move along a circle even if the loop shape looks circular.
FFi CCI

Paul Arden
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Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

Mostly a 1/4 circle or a semi-circle with a snap-cast. What fascinates me is when they rotate around a 1 1/4 circle. I wish I could learn to throw those on demand!

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Graeme H
Posts: 2042
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:54 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

The shape of the loop doesn't describe the path a single point on the line takes through space. It's a fallacy to think the size of the loop influences the aerodynamics of the loop. Under normal circumstances, a loop is not pushing itself into wind. The particles of line enter a vertical loop, move forwards and downwards and stop once they hit the rod leg.

A single point doesn't even follow a 1/4 circle in a normal "semi-circular loop". It has a sort of "1/4 parabolic" path, shedding forward velocity rapidly. (This one was also shooting line so the point continues moving forward after it leaves the bottom of the loop. I'll find another video that doesn't do that later.)

And in a "sexy loop":

FFi CCI

Graeme H
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

That other video, a tighter loop:

FFi CCI

Paul Arden
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Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

Very nice videos Graeme - thanks!!
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tension Discontinuity /DN

What would happen if the rod leg was moved to here?
Attachments
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Graeme H
Posts: 2042
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:54 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia