Casting practice with heavy lines

[Paul Arden]

Hi George,

that’s an excellent question. I don’t know how to make that adjustment. The adjustment I can make is to delay the beginning of the rapid acceleration of the haul. But when I do that I also delay the rapid the acceleration of the rod hand.

I am trying though to see if I can separate them. Since both Gordy and Merlin mentioned this after analysing a hauling video of mine some years ago, it is something I play with trying to learn. It’s possible I find another 5’ and beat everyone else using it so of course it’s worth trying!!! But I don’t know how to do it yet.

What I have started to think is that the most important part of the stroke is immediately after MCL and not immediately before RSP1.

So while it’s quite possible that there is something to gain here it’s a lot harder to learn. I would definitely start off teaching to synchronise both together. That makes easy to learn and throws a long way. And then once that is happening it might be possible to tweak timings.

—

I think one of the problems is that we don’t actually know what we are doing! For example I had always assumed that my peak haul velocity was just prior to arm straight. But it appears it might occur much earlier than this. I don’t know how the haul “twist” affects this. I know I do that all the time and I think it gives me better results. But we have no measurements of anything like that.

It’s an interesting one and I’ve thought about it quite often.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

I think you are absolutely correct Paul.

John

[Phil Blackmar]

Paul-I'm gonna send you back to the roof.

In spending 2 hours working on and experimenting with the haul yesterday, I have come to the conclusion that there is a different way to haul. Notice the direction of your haul.

Paul double haul 1.jpeg (36.03 KiB) Viewed 1182 times

Paul double haul 2.jpeg (31.57 KiB) Viewed 1182 times

Paul double haul 3.jpeg (30.49 KiB) Viewed 1182 times

You spoke of using separation of the hands to create the feeling of weight. I found moving the hauling hand straight back first then extending the arm to be better at providing the sense of weight than down first

Paul double haul 1A.jpeg (35.56 KiB) Viewed 1182 times

Curious your thoughts after messing with this....

I also read an article by Bruce Richards on the haul and he mentioned the haul ending at RSP1. To do so later would rob distance. If this is the case, are there implications for when the haul must begin in order to end at this point? I am pretty sure my haul continues past RSP1. Something else to experiment with this coming morning.

Cheers
Phil

[Paul Arden]

Hi Phil,

I’m having a hard time visualising this. Do you mean keeping the elbow high and hauling around at shoulder level on the forward cast? If so Günter F. is a strong advocate of this and calls it his backhand power haul.

The completion of the haul is an interesting one. On short casts I most certainly haul through RSP1. Hauling beyond RSP1 on distance might be detrimental but I think it has a very small effect. It’s also possible to release before RSP1 and that gets some interesting results too. There is no agreement on this. I think the only common agreement is that holding on too long with a Shooting Head causes it to unroll prematurely. When I cast these lines I try to release the line “early” instead of stopping the line hand and then releasing the line. But I don’t find this nearly so critical with full flylines.

Going up to the roof for a sunset beer and cast!

Cheers, Paul

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Phil,

If it is any consolation (or maybe the kiss of death?), I too find that hauling "back" instead of "down" can be an advantage.

I know that fishing is irrelevant to these discussions, but I find that I can more easily keep the line in and under control of my line hand if I concentrate on hauling "under my armpit". My hand then can quite naturally come forward and keep in touch with and control the line, say for check hauling if necessary. If I haul "way down" I usually snap the flyline out of my hand and lose touch.

Slightly off topic but...

Phil... I am curious that since you apparently are from the good ol' USA... were you ever taught how to pass a football? The concept seems completely alien to these folks! But when I watch the video that was recently uploaded of Steve R casting in slow motion I cannot avoid recognizing the core movements in his cast being so similar. I'll bet he can chuck a football a country mile.

[John Waters]

I'll bet he could too Gary, it's all throwing.

John

[Phil Blackmar]

[quote=Phil... I am curious that since you apparently are from the good ol' USA... were you ever taught how to pass a football? The concept seems completely alien to these folks! But when I watch the video that was recently uploaded of Steve R casting in slow motion I cannot avoid recognizing the core movements in his cast being so similar. I'll bet he can chuck a football a country mile.
[/quote]

I agree, Steve probably could have thrown it 70 yards. John has spoken of the throwing action being applicable to distance casting quite a bit. I decided today that I'm going to eliminate all the extraneous motion and work on getting really efficient, smooth and good from 100 ft and in. No matter what I do, it seems to go the same distance anyway... With that said, I was having an out of body moment a couple days ago where my timing was good (for me) for distance so I started throwing from a stretch pitching motion style with a leg lift and step included-much like a football. When I waited on it and didn't rush, I made a few super cool casts that really made me think there is more to it. Unfortunately, my talent isn't at the level to make it work with any consistency.

I'm glad you understand the haul of which I spoke, It really makes separating the hands more smoothly to where I can feel the weight of the line much easier. All the distance practice has led me to throwing off the side of my body. Today I found I can throw plenty far and with much less to go wrong when I throw from out in front of my body with some extension. From there, that back instead of down haul direction really comes into play and helps.

Thanks for writing back.

All the best
Phil

[Paul Arden]

Yep the “football” thing is interesting. When you throw this object in this bizarre game, do you twist your hand anti-clockwise on the final delivery (right handed throw)? The reason it came up was because Gary said a lot of casters turn the rod in that direction and it’s not something that’s common where I’ve taught. I mostly see the thumb go straight over the top, usually with no attempt to lead with the palm. Like chopping an axe.

Cheers, Paul

[Tommy]

All the pros do twist their hand at the end and a lot of them have a very exaggerated follow through. I don't know that most people playing casually in their backyards do this unless they specifically worked on throwing mechanics.

[Phil Blackmar]

The internal rotation of the forearm which occurs following release is part of the deceleration phase and a natural anatomical response to earlier external rotation. It's not something the athletes try to do. Even a backyard player, if capable of generating enough external rotation prior to release will undergo the same internal rotation response.

thanks
Phil