Casting stroke to minimize kick?

[Chess]

That’s still a very short option, although if you add 4’ of tippet to that you’re up to 7’ total.

Ideally I think you’d want about a 5’ butt section.

Cheers, Paul

You're absolutely right Paul when you think about it and in casting those 9' furled kevlar leaders they respond and unroll pretty smoothly. 9' is an ideal size and it gives about a 5' butt. The kick back is minimal.
The simplicity worked out with those 9' kevlar leaders is more or less copied from the original silk, DT formula & can work across a variety of situations and if need be, trimmed down for a faster taper or add an appropriate length of similar dia mono if needed. At least by doing so and if you're still not happy, it will at least point you in the direction of solving most leader problems in the big fish arena or where 7/8 wt is a minimum imo, maybe casting needs attention. I sure know it does with me in certain situations. Kevlar and also braid packs a punch in the breaking strain department when strands are twisted together, minimum is 28lbs in 6/8wt and 3 strand would be 42lb, but you'd be around the 10wt+ with those. Braid & now kevlar from my experience with those materials really underestimate the breaking strain they state on their labels and there's little to no stretch, so a good or appropriate rod with a tactical fighting technique to suit has a lot to do with it.
There could be a lot to be said about serving a sort of apprenticeship in building your own leaders out of mono to see how tapers behave. I'm only interested and talking about fishing scenarios and the more I'm getting into saltwater fly fishing the tougher the leader the better. Those fish are brutal and are covered with all sorts of sharp bits!

[Phil Blackmar]

Spent the last few days fishing tarpon. Most of it was blind casting aka "coincidence" fishing. You hope your fly and the tarpon coincidentally get close to each other. So, the longer the fly is in the water, the better your odds are... and so, distance is an advantage.

Flys are large and slightly weighted. The lines are intermediate sink. Leaders are on the short side so the fly is at the same depth as the line on the strip... 3- 4 feet deep.

Try to power the cast to increase distance and that usually results in the end tucking and kills the cast. Modify the stroke to minimize tucking and you get the best bang for your buck.

How do you do it?

This is a cast on a 12 wt rod, WF12F/I sink tip line...The leader is 6 feet of 60 lb. The fly is one I use for Cobia. It's tied on a 6/0 hook with decent(don't remember exact size) dumbbell eyes for weight The final cast is made with about 50-55 feet of line out. As I mentioned in a post a couple weeks back, stay soft with the rod hand. Do not pop with the wrist. Long smooth haul, do not make a quick jerk of a haul. Feel the line gradually accelerate with the haul and the rod gently increase bend. Throw slightly above the horizon. This cast went 100 ft with a10-15 mph cross wind from the left.

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/653824963

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Phil,

Thanks! You make it look easy.

I may have to re-think my approach. I have stepped down, twice now, to lighter rod because casting something like a 12 rod with a 12 line would wear me out quickly (and not really necessary for the fish)... but that line will definitely carry the fly further. I guess I have to prioritize: distance or duration?

I have scrutinized my cast and my problem is definitely getting to that ~50' of belly outside the tip. The friction of the thicker front end of the line works against me. I have to fight it when shipping/slipping or, if I don't get it all out... when trying to shoot.

This last time I tried a 10 wt rod with a 9 wt line (that is under labeled). No fatigue problems, and when I worked the line out to my mark, the casts met my standards. I was still cursing the line for the friction until I looked at it inside the snake guides and realized how small they appeared. When I got home I compared them to my favorite (old) tarpon rod that is a 11. The older guides are about 2X the size of these new ones.

The 10 is a new, top of the line, model that boasts light and durable (flexible) snakes... but if they are so light... why go smaller???

I'm curious about your straight 6'/60# leader? I'll never need to go that route, but did you have any kick/tuck with it?

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi Gary-

I throw the 12 wt when fishing around oil rigs for Cobia because I need the ability to at least try to muscle them away from the rig. I was surprised, once I figured out how to throw the 12, that it didn't wear me out .

The secret is to use the haul to create line speed instead of the rod hand. This allows the weight of the line work for you instead of against you. For light flies you can throw a narrow loop but for a heavy fly use a bigger loop. With only 45-50 ft of line in the air, you can false cast a little above the horizon which will give you more time to turn the cast around before it drops too far. A smooth transition will allow you to use a stopless cast where you don't wait for the line to completely straighten out before changing directions.

The haul needs to be long. A short quick haul will kick the fly.

As for the leader, if I apply too much power either by too fast a haul, or snapping the rod at the end of the cast, the fly will definitely kick significantly. I just go straight 60 for Cobia due to the nature of the rigs. We use 100# on plugging rods so I reserve the right to go heavier.

Hope this helps Gary.

Thanks
Phil

[nicholasfmoore]

The secret is to use the haul to create line speed instead of the rod hand.

That's the key to casting the big gear, i think about casting with the haul, and imagining the rod hand is just guiding where the line is going

All the best