Weight transfer/ sequential blocking

[jarmo]

Hello Paul!

Thanks you once again for an amazingly detailed response. I will comment on OSD at this point - I am not mentally ready to take the 170 tour, not yet.

This is another interesting "development." What would you say is the reason that good tracking can be maintained in this shift from closed to open?

Compare this to when the body turns and the hand comes back straight, in this case the hand travels straight through the shoulder position. This can only occur because the shoulder has turned out the way. And then on the forward cast the hand travels back through the shoulder position and the entire body gets in behind the cast. That’s got to be better. It’s better balanced, it’s more powerful, it’s straighter.

It’s a huge change to go from what they are usually doing to this movement. But if we go Closed Stance Accuracy -> Open Stance Distance it’s not only accomplishable but they will improve their short line game as well.

The reason I asked about this is that I have been wondering which moves in OSD would compensate for the switch in elbow position (out, so elbow extension no longer tracks) and body rotation (inherently out of alignment). I have my own way of thinking about this, but I will experiment with your "travelling through shoulder position" next.

People talk about internal and external cues here. I somehow feel I am often better with internal cues. I think about how the biceps and triceps work, how I lead with the elbow, and sometimes "transitioning" to emphasize this, Sedotti-style:



Also, the way I try to do it, I can see the entire cast. That might be wrong too, since I am most certainly not flexible.

Have fun!

Jarmo

[Paul Arden]

That’s very interesting Jarmo and thanks for posting Mark Sedotti’s video. I used to do this on the 170 to make sure I got a wide arc and a high trajectory forward cast. I’ve taught it too by running the rod tip into the ground. With the stiffer rods that we use for 5WT distance I stopped doing this in an attempt to minimise the dangle. “Transitions” is an excellent subject, particularly when we start changing planes between strokes.

The way I think about the alignment is that I have my front target and my rear target and dissecting this straight line, is my rod hand and shoulder. The only way the rod hand can track straight through is if it passes through the shoulder position on both OSD and 170. For accuracy it aligns back to the shoulder but is then blocked of course.

Granted there are times when we don’t do this, particularly when we start laying the loop or rod off to the side. As we go from the vertical to the horizontal things change. A good example of this is a backcast pickup with a tail wind. We need to come off to the side for a low backcast and as a consequence we lose our perfect alignment, but on the next backcast we can straightened up.

Internal/External is an interesting one. Teaching wise anything that is internal I now try to put in the description and then the cue itself I make external. It’s difficult to talk about the transfer of energy up through the body, with elements being blocked in turn without mentioning them. So the way I do that is talk about it, demonstrate it, and then the cue itself usually is to throw the loop at a bell, or over the trees, or to draw a line of paint down for the sky or something like that.

I internalise to make sure I’m doing what I want to be doing but having read up on this stuff recently and applied it to what I’ve been teaching, I would say that mostly I’m external. Throw a potato off the tip, reach out and touch a button, dunk a basketball etc. But there is still a bunch of things I teach internally and I’m seeing if they can be improved. I have to say I find it absolutely fascinating.

That’s actually probably the best thing about teaching. We have this idea of where we want to go and have to figure out how to get our students there. And there are so many different ways to do it. Every time I teach I’m trying out different paths, teaching tactics; every student is different and every one is going to teach me something about teaching. It’s fascinating and is actually my main reason for doing it nowadays. I was going to stop doing the online courses because it’s a complete pain in the arse to plan where to anchor my boat often days in advance! But it has been so educational for me that I not only keep doing it but I imagine that I will always keep doing it. I’ve definitely come on leaps and bounds in the past two years which I didn’t expect. At this rate I might actually be quite good in about 50 years I hope so because I don’t plan to live much longer than that!

Cheers, Paul

[RSalar]

His explanation doesn’t coincide with the videos of him casting. In the explanation video he drops the rod tip during the “transition” so that the rod is almost horizontal. In the video of him casting I don’t see that happening. I see some translation prior top rotation but he doesn’t lay the rod down like he does in the pantomime.

What does “Transition’ mean? Is it just the change from back cast to forward cast and vise a verse or is it a specific move that you make during the pause? Is it a specific move or any move?

—Ron

[jarmo]

Hello Ron!

His explanation doesn’t coincide with the videos of him casting. In the explanation video he drops the rod tip during the “transition” so that the rod is almost horizontal. In the video of him casting I don’t see that happening. I see some translation prior top rotation but he doesn’t lay the rod down like he does in the pantomime.

I agree that in the demonstration, "transition" does not lead to a larger rotational drift (or "layback", since you have recently read your Jason IIRC). However, there are several concepts in the video.

I think in this case "transitioning" refers to two specific movements: placing the elbow in an advantageous position for leading with the elbow, and changing the angle between the rod butt and the forearm. The overall effect is "leading with the reel even more." In the demonstration I can not identify a significant change in relative elbow position during the pause or early forward stroke. However, the angle between the rod butt and the forearm does seem to increase early in the forward cast.

What does “Transition’ mean? Is it just the change from back cast to forward cast and vise a verse or is it a specific move that you make during the pause? Is it a specific move or any move?

I most certainly do not claim to know what it means, but I have associated it with the two elements described above: preparing to lead with the elbow, and enhanced pulling of the rod during the early part of the stroke.

Both of these are familiar to me from my double-handed casting background (THMCI). I associate "preparing to lead with the elbow" with the drift to key position after the sweep, and "changing the angle between the rod butt and the forearm" with an upper hand pulling technique I have used in DH casting during my early forward stroke to delay rotation. But I have only recently started to apply these to SH casting.

Now I am going to take a significant calculated risk and refer to what Lasse might be doing in one video. I think the risk is worth taking, since I really like this clip. Take a look at what happens at the beginning of the forward delivery stroke.



Have fun!

Jarmo

[Lasse Karlsson]

This clip can be useful to show translation prior to rotation.



Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Transition for me would mean what happens between Casting Strokes. See SL definitions below! So would include Drift/Slide. There is a lot that can happen during this phase. I often teach it by laying the line on the ground after the stroke. Many casting problems occur as a result of a poor transition. Can be checked for example from casting off the ground instead of picking the line out the air to see where the problem lies.

Cheers, Paul

[RSalar]

Transition for me would mean what happens between Casting Strokes. See SL definitions below!

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

The closest term that I found was “drag.”

So “drag” is one kind of transition …

“Creep” would be another…

Not all transitions are good transitions!

What is it called when you stop the rod to allow the loop to form, then continue the rotation in order to lengthen the arc? That is a transition but the rod tip is continuing its back cast rotation. I think that’s what happens in the 170. The backwards acceleration vector has changed/slowed as the rod rotates below the straight line plane. The loop starts to propagate at that point. But the rod continues to rotate.

Here’s another type of transition: What if you use a lot of translation at the start of the forward cast and at the same time you start the rotation? So instead of a flat horizontal non rotating rod, the rod starts to rotate? What’s that called? A rotating translation … RT ?

Just calling it a transition doesn’t really say that much. There is always a transition between the back cast and the forward cast. Isn’t it impossible to do an puld cast without a transition…. Ummm … maybe a Belgian puld cast?

Good luck with your casting dictionary!!

Cheers,

Ron

[Paul Arden]

There is always a transition even if it’s just a pause! Rod Tip repositioning moves we call Drift. Line repositioning moves we call Sweep.

Cheers, Paul

[RSalar]

I believe you can make a Belgian cast without a pause

[Paul Arden]

Depends on definition of Pause. If it’s the time between Casting Stokes (SL definitions) then there is indeed a pause and that pause is taken up with a very large amount of semi-circular Drift. If Pause was to mean a stationary rod hand, or rod tip, then there would be no Pause.