Causes of tailing loops

[RSalar]

20 years ago in my MCI test Bill Gammel asked me the tip path for a tailing loop resulting from Forward Creep. Using most definitions including the FFI and Sexyloops, the tip path during the Casting Stroke itself may be concave. The tip path for the Overall Casting Stroke however is first convex then concave.

Cheers, Paul

HI Paul, The question I asked did not come from Mel's book. It is a practice CI exam question. It was a True or False question. As mentioned elsewhere the correct answer is not always the expected answer. I'm thinking on the exam the expected answer is True because not many candidtates would know about the convex, concave tip path that is actually required.

Now back to your Overall Casting Stroke part of your answer: What about a straight tip path at the beginning of the stroke (say the first 1/3) then a sudden burst of power in the middle 1/3 of the stroke (creating more bend and a concave tip path) followed by the last 1/3 returning to a straight tip path? Wouldn't that be a straight, concave, straight tip path and wouldn't it create a tail? Or how about a nice smooth acceleration and straight tip path followed by a way too powerful ending? So just straight and convex. Why do you say that there must be a convex component?

Thanks,

Ron

[Graeme H]

Thanks Gary.

I’m sitting for the MCI in Elizabeth Beach in New South Wales, Australia. It’s a coastal town north of Newcastle.

Cheers, Graeme

[Lasse Karlsson]

It has to go up Lasse to make the wave. And yes I would think it must be accelerating. Do you agree?

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul

Not sure it has to go up to mske a tail, and when the tip goes up, I don't think it's accelerating the line, it goes up because the iine is travelling faster than it.

Cheers
Lasse

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Side question:

If asked to make a tail on purpose... how do you make a tail so early that a wind knot appears in the flyline?

I know someone who can do this on demand, but I cannot. Best I can do is an occasional knot near the end of the leader. The fact that I can't figure out how to do this drives me nuts.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Gary

At a festival listening to music, will give a better answer tomorrow. But make it early, and make sure it goes through itself. I was goated into a competition doing just that in 2007 by Peter Hayes, it took a while, and he did it first
Fun excercise, one learns stuff

Cheers
Lasse

[Jonathan]

Not sure it has to go up to mske a tail,

Thanks Lasse and Paul - this is the essence of my question. I personally think it does almost certainly have to go both down and up. But I am not certain if I am correct (if I were I would probably not have posed the question on this forum). I think the importance of the "up" was raised many years ago on the old forum and from my failing memory I first recall it being raised by Lasse.

However my opinion is now strengthened in that no-one has yet told me how to cast a tailing loop without the "down and up".

Paul I think a "buckle" in the line is a pretty apt description.

As an aside Lasse I was present in 2007 and remember the evening casting session well (I passed my CI the following day - yes I used the word "concave" but with other words to clarify - and was your "driver" for a day or two, although you were not my examiner). At the time the evening session was without doubt the most impressive fly casting session I had seen. It almost totally destroyed my confidence for my test the following day. Fortunately Peter Hayes took pity on me afterwards and after a chat settled my nerves a little.

Jon

[Graeme H]

Not sure it has to go up to mske a tail, and when the tip goes up, I don't think it's accelerating the line, it goes up because the iine is travelling faster than it.

Cheers
Lasse

Once the line is travelling faster than the tip, a loop has formed. The tailing wave occurs before that time.

The rod straightening sooner than desired propels the line away from the hand* but it does so before the loop forms.

As far as acceleration goes: if there is any bend in the rod at all, it’s indicating there is some amount of force being exerted on the line. It may be minuscule compared with anything that has come before, but it’s a force nonetheless. If there is force, there is acceleration of the line.

Cheers,
Graeme

* “Away from the hand” is pedantry but we can cast a tailing loop with a side arm cast too. The shape and cause of the tail is the same but the rod tip moves away from the hand sideways.

[RSalar]

I personally think it does almost certainly have to go both down and up.

I agree — if it just went down and not back up there would be no tail. It would just be a change in trajectory


—Ron

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Graeme

That's where you get the wave bit, a loop doesn't have to form to have a difference in speed, just a bit of slack.

Cheers
Lasse, of to bed it's a quarter past 4 in the morning, but the last concert was fully worth it

[Paul Arden]

Hi Lasse,

Because the tailing wave occurs in the fly leg and runs along the fly leg from loop front to fly. We also know max tip speed is RSP1. So it must be accelerating the line.

Hi Gary,

For the knot to appear consistently in the fly line you run the line into the rod tip and the flyleg goes through the loop formed. However it’s also possible to do this with an early tail too, but clipping the rod tip is the most consistent way to get the flyleg fully through.

Hi Ron,

I’ll draw a picture shortly.

Cheers, Paul