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Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

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RSalar
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Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#1

Post by RSalar »

What have you found to be some of the best ways to correct casting faults?

I have seen Instructors take hold of the the fly rod while it’s still in the student’s hand. Does that work? I can see how you could get the student to feel the right position to be in but it doesn’t seem like it would be effective in teaching the proper application of force.

I usually demonstrate then let them try, then show them what they need to correct. Then let them try again. Repeat. Ive used my phone to video them and show them what they are doing as compared to the proper way. But I have no idea what I’m doing. :p

The CI exam required the use of these methods:

Demonstrations
Explanation
Kinesthetic methods
The 6-step Teaching Method

I use the first 2 only…..

I’m also surprised the testing committee didn’t recommend video as a teaching method. But that’s another topic of discussion.

I’m interested now in finding out what you do with a beginner— what’s your process?

Thanks,


Ron
FFI - CCI
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Walter
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#2

Post by Walter »

Ron,

First find a mentor.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
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Walter
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#3

Post by Walter »

Ron,

Fwiw I highly recommend the “throw a bucket” process for teaching beginners. Before that it was the shotgun process.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
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Paul Arden
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#4

Post by Paul Arden »

Excellent question Ron. Firstly, coaching fly casting is mostly not about fixing faults, instead it’s usually about making something better. Which should hopefully be a much more positive experience.

But undoubtedly there are “faults”. Most of which can be narrowed down to force application and/or timing. And I mean both in a very broad sense.

The way the FFI have structured their question does exist in teaching. For me that’s a 5 minute quick-fix teaching situation where we can sometimes find ourselves (at fishing shows for example, not so much in 1-1 lessons). They give you approx 7 minutes to fix 3 faults. Which is fast fast fast.

And you definitely want to use the 6 Steps because they ask for it. They will also tie very nicely into the 5 Essentials.

So I would just focus on that. And sometimes it actually does happen like that in teaching. Far more likely of course is a long ingrained action that needs to be redeveloped over time.

A few ways I deal with that is to find a way of isolating the movement, either broken down into separate casting stokes (or sometimes an entirely different cast where it’s often easier to make changes before transferring back across). Find ways of doing it in slow motion and then contrast to the previous method to cement.

Another method is to take the existing problem and amplify the error, which should allow them to be able to control it – in other words we give them access to the very point when the error occurs to play with it.

Video is fantastic. I find casting practise drills that offer control over the variable timing/force application within the error phase to be very important.. because I don’t actually believe that the quick fix we have in the field is necessarily going to be lasting on the water when a fish pops its head up or a 100lb tarpon swims past the boat. For this lasting change we need to develop alternative casting exercises for each error. Particularly control drills with a short line such as the Triangle Method will solve a lot of problems. It might take 20 hours of practise to reprogram a 20 year ingrained habit.

So there are quick fixes and there are lasting changes. Sometimes the quick fix will result in a lasting change but only when you are very lucky.

The exam approach can often be the first step in the process anyway. Just don’t expect it to always work first time because it will run your ship aground if it doesn’t and you persist in tying to make it.

However for the exam focus on what they want. Which is identify the fault and then show the right way. Three faults in seven minutes. That’s little more than wrong way right way, offering a single cue.

In the exam they are going to make one of the six listed faults. Your approach is to use the six step method verbalising it from start to finish. Ie Loop - rod tip - hand/body - offer the cue to make the change to hand/body - rod tip - loop. If it was always this easy we would be overpaid and teaching would be a lot less interesting than it really is. :)

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#5

Post by carlz »

The exam is focused on brevity and clarity. Identify an issue, give a short concise response, maybe demonstrate, and move on. The answers are for the general fly fishing poplulation, not the examiners or sexyloops readers.

Prepare your responses ahead of time on flash cards and work through them aloud.

But as for correcting faults:
  • Identify the fault,
  • How you identified it (work back from the flyline, to rod to hand)
  • How to correct it (explanation)
  • Help them accomplish the task (this is what we all focus on, because each student is different)
For helping them correct it, casting their rod (either hand on their hand, the rod above their hand, have them put their hand on yours) is good, but has to be done well. Video is awsome. and having them exagerate the fault is good (I had never thought of it in this way, thanks Paul).

It's rewarding when you see someone "get it" but also discouraging when you come back 10 minutes later and their back to their old cast.
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#6

Post by RSalar »

Paul Arden wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:47 am Excellent question Ron.
Cheers, Paul
Thanks for the explanation Paul. I sincerely appreciate your direct answers.

Cheers,

Ron
FFI - CCI
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#7

Post by RSalar »

carlz wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:49 pm The exam is focused on brevity and clarity. Identify an issue, give a short concise response, maybe demonstrate, and move on. The answers are for the general fly fishing poplulation, not the examiners or sexyloops readers.
Thanks — very helpful
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#8

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

carlz wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:49 pm For helping them correct it, casting their rod (either hand on their hand, the rod above their hand, have them put their hand on yours) is good, but has to be done well. Video is awsome. and having them exagerate the fault is good (I had never thought of it in this way, thanks Paul).

It's rewarding when you see someone "get it" but also discouraging when you come back 10 minutes later and their back to their old cast.
Hi Carl

There might be a reason they revert back to their old cast

https://perceptionaction.com/96-2/

As an instructor, if something doesn't yield long term improvements, maybe one should ditch it :)

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts ;)
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Walter
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#9

Post by Walter »

I’ve found that incorporating eyesight into teaching, especially for the backcast, gives immediate and long lasting results compared to the hands on experience. Teach the student how to look, what to look for and they tune in quickly. If I see them slipping into a large open backcast at any point later all I have to do tell them to take a look at their backcast. Instant fix. If I’ve done the hands on experience and they start to slip, what then? Repeat hands on?

I find the “aha” moment for the student with visual learning is when they go from staring into space to actually focussing on the line on their backcast. There are a few tricks I’ve found that I go through to find what works with a given student.

Synchronized casting (I’ll cast and you mimic me) is also good, but that is eyesight related as well. It also isn’t as permanent as just learning how to watch your cast.

In the past I used a baby monitor and head mounted display so the caster could watch themselves cast from any direction in real time. It was cool and helped some people but others found it disorienting. It was also far more complicated than just showing them how to turn their heads and look for themselves.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
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Walter
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Re: Correcting faults — effective teaching methods

#10

Post by Walter »

Lasse Karlsson wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:56 am
As an instructor, if something doesn't yield long term improvements, maybe one should ditch it :)

Cheers
Lasse
I’ve seen a number of instructors who at the end of a day will say, “that person just doesn’t get it”. But if you ask the instructor what the student isn’t getting they can’t tell you what exactly the “it” is. If the instructor doesn’t get it then what chance does the student have?
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
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