Teaching fly casting compared to other sports

[VGB]

When something is written that doesn’t fit with our observations there are several possibilities, just accepting the written word however is not one of them.

Another is that our observations are incorrectly focused, an instructors focus of attention is subject to the same limitations as the students. Moreover, instructors are subject to cognitive biases that incline them to seek confirmation of pre-determined concepts, particularly if they have made public pronouncements on a topic. The advantage of the material that is presented by people like Winkelman, Gray et al is that the cited evidence has been subjected to independent scrutiny, unlike the written word on the board.

Anyway, I'm going fishing and see if I can catch anything with a T-38.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

I just look for ways to find improvement Vince. There are numerous possible avenues to explore and when one route doesn’t go forwards we pick another one. Improvement is usually very apparent and always measurable.

Must sleep. Bloody 6am start

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

I am interested in the “how”. Unfortunately, it’s become evident that this isn’t as interesting to other instructors as it is to me…

Casting instruction is in the dark ages, with the instructosphere rejecting scientific evidence of human behaviours in favour of personality cult homilies.

I do find these comments a bit odd. I can’t talk for everyone but everything that comes up in these discussions I test on students.

Cheers, Paul

You are one of the only ones I can think of that does that. Most instructors stick to whatever formula they have settled on. Go to any flyfishing show and listen to a demo or two, chances are you will get to know quite alot of things that aren't true, even if the demoists have been presented with evidence to the opposite.

It was very interesting to sit in on a CE on teaching, and witness the rejection from certified instructors because they once had taught a few in a certain way and it worked... while being told that it might work on the day but long time retention was at best low through that method. Yes things can be measured, but the instructors actually testing if things work are few, very very few...

Cheers
Lasse

[whinging pom]

When something is written that doesn’t fit with our observations there are several possibilities, just accepting the written word however is not one of them.

Another is that our observations are incorrectly focused, an instructors focus of attention is subject to the same limitations as the students. Moreover, instructors are subject to cognitive biases that incline them to seek confirmation of pre-determined concepts, particularly if they have made public pronouncements on a topic. The advantage of the material that is presented by people like Winkelman, Gray et al is that the cited evidence has been subjected to independent scrutiny, unlike the written word on the board.

Anyway, I'm going fishing and see if I can catch anything with a T-38.

Regards

Vince

wow tell it like it is Vince!

Viewing from the other end of the spectrum , i can only say there's characters ( instructors) in every field of skill training who once were inspired and open, who may not necessarily be shackled those public pronouncements , but just lazily "rest on their laurels" now and become complacent to reassessment and thus become almost snobbishly conservative to change. Like they are gifted with some sacred unchangeable truth that they achieved in 1997 "and its as true today....... Bull"

They have become closed minds. We've all met them!

They need gently leading towards greener pastures and while they are distracted by a future of grazing in glory, being subtly gifted a single bullet between the ears! or dismissed as the dinosaurs they are... which is probably more hurtful.

Ive read this forum from the wings for years, and it was the refreshing acknowledgements by Paul especially and others that time and ideas progressed and a constant questioning of perceived wisdom ( even his own) that drew me into joining it.

Im not off fishing , its still bloody closed season for another 3 days here, I cant cast, i cant fish, they,re playing unhinged john coltrane on the radio... no wonder I'm bloody edgy and homicidal!!
pom

[Paul Arden]

Ah right. I haven’t been following any of this stuff having taken myself out of direct involvement with the associations long ago. It used to matter to me what other instructors did but it doesn’t any more.

What I will say (and I generally don’t say this while arguing of course) is that these coaching discussions, that we have been having here, over the past two years, have had a profound influence upon how I coach.

Nick’s book certainly. That’s really given me structure, that I didn’t have in the same way before. Rob Gray’s book, despite some questions from me, is also highly influential. But the sports research papers too have enabled me to build a coaching workshop in my mind, where I am constantly being challenged.

For me it’s not been black and white, ie replacing one thing with another, instead it’s given me a) more options and b) better analysis over if/how/why/why-not something has worked.

I can tell you for a fact that I analyse my own coaching very differently now. And this has come at a very good time for me too, because I’m busy at the moment with daily coaching. The result has been different tools and approaches, and a vastly different analysis over my lesson afterwards.

So thanks Mark and Vince. You might get up my nose sometimes, especially you Vince , but it’s appreciated!

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

You might get up my nose sometimes, especially you Vince , but it’s appreciated!

My life would be incomplete if I didn’t get up your nose

[Paul Arden]

Yep so I’ve realised! Set of babies swimming past the boat. It’s a sign..

[VGB]

I’m retiring at the end of this year, I’ll have more time

[Paul Arden]

[VGB]

What I will say (and I generally don’t say this while arguing of course) is that these coaching discussions, that we have been having here, over the past two years, have had a profound influence upon how I coach.

Nick’s book certainly. That’s really given me structure, that I didn’t have in the same way before. Rob Gray’s book, despite some questions from me, is also highly influential. But the sports research papers too have enabled me to build a coaching workshop in my mind, where I am constantly being challenged.

For me it’s not been black and white, ie replacing one thing with another, instead it’s given me a) more options and b) better analysis over if/how/why/why-not something has worked.

I can tell you for a fact that I analyse my own coaching very differently now. And this has come at a very good time for me too, because I’m busy at the moment with daily coaching. The result has been different tools and approaches, and a vastly different analysis over my lesson afterwards.

Although it pains me, I agree with you. I've not had the years and 1000s of students that many of you have had but I know when I deliver a dud lesson and I don't like it. It has also made me question a lot of the core teaching techniques. As another fr'instance and not aimed at you; if we accept that casting is a throwing action backwards and forwards, why is so little attention paid to the back cast (arguably the most unnatural movement of the two) in the foundation stroke and similar early doors teaching?

regards

Vince