Pauls latest roll cast video

[whinging pom]

(Paul I was going to PM my dumb questions but thought it more appropriate here.. there maybe more duffers about that would appreciate the answer (s) and it may open a discussion. Ive no idea how to stick the video here for reference )

Hi Paul
I loved the video and as ive been TE pain free for about a week , i finally started some gentle casting today, and was screwing up my rollcasts royalley.
( it was a bloodbath but that's another story )

So just in time for tomorrow. you video lands thank you.
I loved that introduction of flicking a loop partially along the length and extending it. looked simple as.... ill be on that exercise tomorrow.

One thing I wanted to bring to your attention as you normally describe everything that's going on and any additional actions .
At 4.10 or thereabouts, your talking about powering the roll cast under a tree and it being a 'beginners roll cast'.
I noticed on those two casts you really ripped back the hauling hand,
There was no mention of this ( sly )additional movement or force in the narration, was it an involuntary action or you just didn't think it warranted talking about. And i didnt see you hauling on any other roll casts,.

AND can i ask , of the three stops I get the first two, powered and pull back, and the applications of them, but why would you use stopless for a roll cast or is it an exercise to take you forward with other casts?

all the very best
pom

[Paul Arden]

Thanks Pom!

That’s a really good observation on the haul. It’s definitely going to make a difference!! I think at this angle we have definitely upped the skills level. I will look at teaching that specifically. It also leads into delayed rotation.

I introduce Stopless for line speed. That also applies to a roll cast for casting into a headwind for example. In lessons I move from this to overhead stopless delivery forward and quite soon afterwards to backcast stopless deliveries. And then we are cooking with gas.

Cheers, Paul

[George C]

Hi Paul
I struggle with this cast so I've watched this with interest.
One unmentioned thing that stands out to me on your video is how much you use your torso, bending forward at the waist and slowly driving the shoulder forward to introduce translation before rotation. When I watch the rod, this forward and slightly down shoulder motion does not seem to rotate the rod suggesting there is some degree of layback occurring. On close in shots it seems you actually crouch and bend well forward before even starting translation, I presume to set a downward trajectory.
Am I seeing this correctly?
Thanks
George

[whinging pom]

George, i noticed stance too, but put it down to two things,:-
the instability of the boat and the need to widen the stance and semi crouch to lower the centre of gravity and cushion the movement
......and the size of his enormous Seat!.

I d be interested to see what he says and whether that down shoulder motion is part of lowering the elbow. and whether that's further delaying rotation.

Paul stopless for head wind?
i get that now its said, initially i was thinking it wouldn't have the penetration of the narrow looped pull back delivery.
Ill have to put that into action and comparison tomorrow. ( i bet for once this year its dead calm!)
many thanks ... and good luck with it George
pom

[Paul Arden]

and the size of his enormous Seat!.

Haha so yes there are a few things in there that are very interesting. When I teach the Roll Cast I do emphasise delayed rotation/ Drag. This is a clear route to forming a straight fly leg. How exactly one does this initially I think is almost up to them.

But if we are looking at “good form” I think the way I’m making these casts is “better form” than someone standing with their legs straight. And I believe this for several reasons. The first is that if we bend our knees we are more stable; we can sway backwards and forwards, we don’t lose our balance when we use weight shift and, rather importantly, we don’t fall out the boat when an unexpected big wave comes along.

The second reason that bending the knees is better, is because it actually gives me the possibility to go up on the launch — and if we want to make a long cast, whether that’s roll or overhead, we want to launch up.

On close shots I crouch for several reasons. The first is if this was a fishing shot at that range you are going to have to get low. The second is because the line length is so short, if I stand up there won’t be enough line to make an anchor. (Incidentally I am amazed at the number of experienced anglers who don’t hide when they know they have a close-range shot coming. So it’s worth really stating that if you have a close range shot then you need to get low. And for this same reason, we make close-range shots using a side rod angle and low loop trajectory).

With regards to pull-back vs Stopless, line speed will always beat a tight loop into a wind. The fly leg must be straight to target, and we set this up in the case of the Roll Cast with the starting rod angle, and in the case of an overhead cast with the angle of the backcast.

If you have a really strong wind then something like what I’m doing for the low delivery combined with a jump roll is the last variation of the cast that will fail to unroll. A roll cast will fail before an overhead cast under these circumstances, because it the less efficient cast.

I teach to imagine you are on a snowboard. Sink the body, bend the knees.

Cheers, Paul

[whinging pom]

Paul thanks for reply and advice.
I took it all and what i remembered of the video down the field into the rain sodden swirling breeze and gave it a shot before cold english rain finally breached my collar and found the back of my neck, its a concentration killer when your teeth start to chatter.
( how's the tropics?).

I have to say the initial exercise to concentrate on sending a tight little loop down a partially extended roll cast and then gradually extending it along the length was refreshingly novel, I found a great help to achieve the action and control before moving forward. That's a great opening and confidence builder.

Of the three stops I actually found the stopless easiest to fully turn over the leader and arrive somewhere near where i wanted it. ( fine if I am aiming for a large shoal of fish ). But I put that target problem down to the gusty swirling wind .

The hard stop felt kind of normal to me but couldn't quite as yet get the pull back... I can put it into a back cast,( i think) but struggled for now, any exercises to train yourself into the action/mindset?

As for the haul.... its back to the drawing board on that, it just killed the momentum like applying a break to the cast. I need to viwew the mechanics again.. or maybe get the roll cast under more control first.

I remember a thread recently about long roll casts and i was hoping to read through it before going back down the field tomorrow.. cant find it... dont tell me i am dreaming about non-existent threads?!! that is disturbing.
pom

[Lasse Karlsson]

I remember a thread recently about long roll casts and i was hoping to read through it before going back down the field tomorrow.. cant find it... dont tell me i am dreaming about non-existent threads?!! that is disturbing.
pom

This one?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3852&hilit=distance+roll+cast

Cheers
Lasse

[whinging pom]

I remember a thread recently about long roll casts and i was hoping to read through it before going back down the field tomorrow.. cant find it... dont tell me i am dreaming about non-existent threads?!! that is disturbing.
pom

This one?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3852&hilit=distance+roll+cast

Cheers
Lasse

yes siree! many thanks Lasse thats my bedtime reading sorted.

Thats yet another one i owe you... (that debts getting quite large by now )
all the best
pom

[Paul Arden]

Hi Pom,

Yep pull-back is tough to learn at first. Try this: take the rod without the line and bounce the rod gently in your hand. Try subtly emphasising the bounce. Emphasis on the subtle. I think I talked about that in a first gear exercise. Anyway that bounce is what we want to deliver at the end of the stroke in place of the stop.

It doesn’t come immediately and takes some exploration. It’s not forced and it’s not delayed! “Soft hands” might help.

It’s worth playing with because it tightens the loop and has uses such as fly first and accentuated curve casts. Most of my fishing casts are in fact either pull-back or stopless.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Hauling on a roll cast is almost a separate topic. It’s definitely “late”. With a dynamic roll it makes a huge difference. I had a bit of a check through the video when you mentioned that I was hauling on the side cast. It’s not as aggressive as I was expecting after your comment! I use a lot of “twist”.

Is your rod hand in front of your line hand when you begin hauling? It’s very common to see the haul begin when the rod is still travelling towards the line hand. This doesn’t work well at all and you need to rotate the torso first in order that the rod hand is in front of the line hand, and then haul.

Cheers, Paul