Leader Questions

[masonj_27]

Hey everyone,

About a month back or so, I was inspired to start tying my own tapered leader formulas. I have experimented with a number of different formulas, and over time have come up with number of different questions. From everything that I have seen, everyone advocates a nice bell curve shape going from the leader that is tied into the tip of the fly line (personally I am a fan of the nail knot). From my understanding, forming a nice "bell curved" shape, is determined by the stiffness of the leader (butt section) material in comparison to the fly line. From what I have learned from tying many different pieces of leader material to different fly lines, is that the stiffer the butt section material is, the smaller in diameter must be in order to achieve that same bell curve. Is there a point when that can be problematic? For example, on one of my lines, I am able to achieve a very good bell curve with 15 lb maxima chameleon line as my butt section. Is this too light of a butt section? Most leader formulas that I find, all have butt sections that are minimum 25 lb. In my mind the heavier the butt section is, the better it will turn over the rest of the leader. Although then there is not that "bell curve" shape, unless I were to find more a more supple leader material.

I have also heard that stiffer leaders perform better in windy conditions, is this true? Here in Idaho, it is very rare to have a day where there ISN'T some sort of wind. What are the advantages of different leader materials? I am assuming that more supple materials protect tippet much better than stiffer materials do. Does anybody have any resources that could possibly point me in the right direction? Any feedback would be much appreciated!

Best Regards,

- Mason

[Paul Arden]

Hi Mason,

My standard leaders are usually 30, 30, 40%. With the 40% being the tippet. This is different from everything I’ve read All I can say is that it works best for me. Which I think makes the point the proof of the pudding is in the eating. In other words we can assess the leader by casting it. What on Earth this says about my casting vs others I have no idea! Perhaps I have more energy remaining to dissipate? That I then control turn over with the line hand? I really don’t know why 40/30/30 is often recommended because for me it turns over too hard.

For butt section the bell curve is interesting, but I try to aim for a leader butt of Approx 2/3rds the diameter of the flyline tip.

Certainly I’ve tried casting butt sections that are overly stiff (“Mason” Hard Mono ) and this opens the loop as it unrolls (not in a good way!). I think mass is more important than stiffness however. Stiffness for me has always created a problem.

Cheers, Paul

[masonj_27]

Hey Paul,

I appreciate your feedback, I will have to continue to play around with different formulas and ideas and see. Last night I also ran into a thread on the Saltwater forum talking about butt sections, and I found that to be very interesting as well. They talked about the density differences between nylon compared to fluro. Would you say that mass correlates to the diameter of the leader material as well (the larger the diameter of the tippet, the more mass it has and the "heavier" it is). Like making a fly line, leaders can be technical!!

Best Regards,

- Mason

[Graeme H]

I see the leader design as an exercise in controlling the loop's behaviour once it transitions into the leader from the fly line. That behaviour is governed by the mass per unit length of the material and the stiffness of the material. (The line's front taper is doing something similar within the line itself.)

If I want the leader of a given length to dissipate the loop's "energy", I'll use a lighter or limper butt section.

If I want the energy to be maintained further into the leader, I'll use heavier or stiffer leader material in the butt section.

Lengthening the leader will dissipate the energy more effectively, all other factors being equal.

Shortening the leader encourages the energy to reach the fly more easily, all other things being equal.

Cheers,
Graeme

PS - Stiff butt sections aren't much fun to fish with if they get a kink in them. Softer leader material is my preference, but if I'm in a rocky area, I might choose the stiffer material for abrasion resistance.

[Paul Arden]

Hi Mason,

Yep actually there is a recent discussion on just this that Gary started. Me personally I don’t like fluorocarbon. It has poor knot strength, a ridiculously long shelf life (2000 years reportedly), is expensive and I can see it in a glass of water. There may be some advantages in sink rate but there are so many other ways to deal with this. Besides with poppers I actually grease my leaders and fluoro sinks!!

My honest opinion is it’s heavily marketed are requires something akin to “faith” to believe in. And of course those who believe are convinced

Here in Malaysia I buy nylon according to diameter. Not what is printed on the spools. Diameter is often incorrectly labelled too! I have one spool of mono which states “breaking strains testing on fish”!!! WTF I’m supposed to make of that I have no idea Is this somehow more accurate than an Instron?

Cheers, Paul

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Mason,

From my point of view, there is no magic formula for "leaders" since it all depends on what you are trying to do.

There is a big difference between a dry fly leader where you want slack, to a bonefish leader where you want a soft entry, to maybe trying to turn over a 1/0 popper attached to 8 inches of wire bite tippet.

There is an infinite number of goals, and so more than an infinite number of leader "formulas".

And most anglers, especially the novices, don't want to hear that. So, in the classes I taught I had two very general suggestions to those willing to go a step beyond purchasing a premade leader coiled in a plastic envelope. (1) Multiply the line number by 5 and that will get you in the range for a common nylon monofilament butt section, and (2), start with a 60:20:20 ratio for butt; taper; tippet.

The above suggestions are not a bad place to start for general inshore saltwater leaders in a location like South Florida... which is where I taught. BTW... the 60:20:20 is very easy to guestimate when you learn to fold the butt section into 3 sections since a third of 60 is 20 right?

Of course, the above is only for newbs. And since you are already matching the bend of the line tip to the butt section stiffness, you are well beyond that point. But I will say that I have moved on from the "matching stiffness" theory to the "matching density" idea, which seems to produce better results for me.

The only true way to dial in the leader is to take the rod/line/leader/fly combo out with extra leader wheels and some clippers and truly tune it to your liking. Its really not that much work: just some knots and guess work. But the results can be a game changer and the education priceless.

If you can find one, Bruce Richards wrote a small book on flylines years ago. It covers a lot of theory on flyline tapers that can be extrapolated into leader design. You might even find some of Bruce's more recent leader ideas here on SL, actually quite recently.

[masonj_27]

Hey fellas, apologies for the delayed response. I appreciate all of the feedback. I think I will try to expand my arsenal of different leader materials and try some different, materials with different lines and have a go with them. Also will try to get my hands on a copy of that book by Bruce Richards as well. Any ideas where I might find some of his more recent ideas here on SL? Recently I stumbled on to his article on "The Loop," and found that to give me some more insight on building leaders. Thanks again for all of the ideas fellas, this gives me some different things to have a go with!

Best Regards,

- Mason