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Dissecting the haul
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Re: Dissecting the haul
Hi Graeme,
If the wave doesn’t transport the fly leg then what does it do? A wave isn’t just a bend in the line, it is energy travelling through the line.
Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop. This undoubtedly means that angular momentum is involved.
Cheers, Paul
If the wave doesn’t transport the fly leg then what does it do? A wave isn’t just a bend in the line, it is energy travelling through the line.
Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop. This undoubtedly means that angular momentum is involved.
Cheers, Paul
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Re: Dissecting the haul
That sounds weird to me. Can I catch that energy and put it in a box? Is it constant in the level or size?
I prefer to think, that parts of the fly line are in different motions each. Kinetic energy is mass times 0,5 times velocity squared. Thus you can calculate the Ekin for each (or just the chosen) part of your line. Air resistance and gravity act on your line. Thus Ekin will vary in value permanently. So I dont think you can say that some energy travels thru the line.
The line is in motion and each part of line in motion is connected on both sides thus is affected by the movement of the other line parts on both sides.
A fly line is a fly line and no wave.
There obviously is no one fixed physics concept to describe all kind of movements we put our lines in. Otherwise this discussion would not be endless.
Cheers
B
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Re: Dissecting the haul
Should we be debating the nature of infinity?Bernd Ziesche wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:29 am There obviously is no one fixed physics concept to describe all kind of movements we put our lines in. Otherwise this discussion would not be endless.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” — Ernst F. Schumacher
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Re: Dissecting the haul
The fly leg is one half of the wave. The rod leg is the other.Paul Arden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:51 am Hi Graeme,
If the wave doesn’t transport the fly leg then what does it do? A wave isn’t just a bend in the line, it is energy travelling through the line.
Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop. This undoubtedly means that angular momentum is involved.
Cheers, Paul
The wave is transmitting the energy you put into it through the line. You know how you flick the line to the left and bring it back to put a mend in the line? You put a little bit of energy into it and that runs along the line. The result is a bit of line being moved to the left. Put a bunch more energy into that same flick and wait a bit, and the whole line is moved to the left, not just the little bit from the mend. Especially if you started with the line in a favourable orientation to accept that energy.
Really? We need to Zoom I think. It would be really good to let you examine how the marks on a line interact with the loop.Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop
Cheers, Graeme
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Re: Dissecting the haul
Might be helpful sometimes in SL!VGB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:36 amShould we be debating the nature of infinity?Bernd Ziesche wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:29 am There obviously is no one fixed physics concept to describe all kind of movements we put our lines in. Otherwise this discussion would not be endless.
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Re: Dissecting the haul
So now you are saying that the wave transports the fly leg? Maybe I misread but I thought a few pages back you said it didn’t do this (line on the floor).The wave is transmitting the energy you put into it through the line. You know how you flick the line to the left and bring it back to put a mend in the line? You put a little bit of energy into it and that runs along the line. The result is a bit of line being moved to the left. Put a bunch more energy into that same flick and wait a bit, and the whole line is moved to the left, not just the little bit from the mend. Especially if you started with the line in a favourable orientation to accept that energy.
There has to be angular momentum otherwise there wouldn’t even be a loop. Just an accordion.
Sorry busy packing for Langkawi. Back later Graeme.
Cheers, Paul
Re: Dissecting the haul
Hi Paul,
The fly leg is part of the wave. One leg of the wave.
The only thing moving in the cast is the fly leg. It stops moving when the line in it hits the rod leg’s tension. The path it takes to enter that collision is top part of the loop. Once it hits the nose, that’s pretty much it for its forward journey. It only moves down or up (counterflex) once it hits the front of the loop. The only curve is the entry into the top of the loop.
Getting confusing, I know. It needs animated diagrams to clarify.
The path shape is the wave form you imparted with the rod tip.
The fly leg is part of the wave. One leg of the wave.
The only thing moving in the cast is the fly leg. It stops moving when the line in it hits the rod leg’s tension. The path it takes to enter that collision is top part of the loop. Once it hits the nose, that’s pretty much it for its forward journey. It only moves down or up (counterflex) once it hits the front of the loop. The only curve is the entry into the top of the loop.
Getting confusing, I know. It needs animated diagrams to clarify.
The path shape is the wave form you imparted with the rod tip.
FFi CCI
Re: Dissecting the haul
The line is the wave finally, the loop is not. So the tension is the same on both ends of the line? The wavelength varies along the line or the legs are necessary parallel? The wave is asymmetric? We are just lost by the definition of the transverse wave in a line which is the line itself. That is strange physics indeed.The fly leg is one half of the wave. The rod leg is the other.
It needs more than that, a complete course on the physics of a transverse wave in a fly line. To be convinced there is the need to repeat numerous times statements without trying to confirm them by actual physics laws.Getting confusing, I know. It needs animated diagrams to clarify.
After the vanishing of angular momentum of the loop, the situation is degrading page after page. Graeme is bewitched by the devil of waves I’m afraid. I have no magic spell to bring him back on earth unfortunately.
MAYDAY, MAYDAY!
Merlin
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Re: Dissecting the haul
Hi Merlin (and Gordy),Merlin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 1:02 pm ...
It needs more than that, a complete course on the physics of a transverse wave in a fly line. To be convinced there is the need to repeat numerous times statements without trying to confirm them by actual physics laws.
After the vanishing of angular momentum of the loop, the situation is degrading page after page. Graeme is bewitched by the devil of waves I’m afraid. I have no magic spell to bring him back on earth unfortunately.
MAYDAY, MAYDAY!
Merlin
So you're saying that unless the motion on the string looks like this, it's not a transverse wave? The line must have displacement about a common point and be returned periodically across that point. Something like a wiggle mend, perhaps.
If we have a rope or string or fly line that follows that motion, you'd call that wave motion, is that correct?
Cheers,
Graeme
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Re: Dissecting the haul
Yep that is confusing Graeme. I had imagined the transverse wave to be a wave travelling through the line. Maybe I’m confusing what you write and Berlin used to write when he called it an “energy packet”. But that’s certainly how I understand a transverse wave to behave.
If the entire flyline is the transverse wave then I don’t see how it can move… through itself?
I think a “transverse” wave would be the loop running through the line. I prefer whip wave. Or loop wave.
Cheers, Paul
If the entire flyline is the transverse wave then I don’t see how it can move… through itself?
I think a “transverse” wave would be the loop running through the line. I prefer whip wave. Or loop wave.
Cheers, Paul