Dissecting the haul

[Paul Arden]

Hi Graeme,

If the wave doesn’t transport the fly leg then what does it do? A wave isn’t just a bend in the line, it is energy travelling through the line.

Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop. This undoubtedly means that angular momentum is involved.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

it is energy travelling through the line.

That sounds weird to me. Can I catch that energy and put it in a box? Is it constant in the level or size?
I prefer to think, that parts of the fly line are in different motions each. Kinetic energy is mass times 0,5 times velocity squared. Thus you can calculate the Ekin for each (or just the chosen) part of your line. Air resistance and gravity act on your line. Thus Ekin will vary in value permanently. So I dont think you can say that some energy travels thru the line.
The line is in motion and each part of line in motion is connected on both sides thus is affected by the movement of the other line parts on both sides.

A fly line is a fly line and no wave.
There obviously is no one fixed physics concept to describe all kind of movements we put our lines in. Otherwise this discussion would not be endless.
Cheers
B

[VGB]

There obviously is no one fixed physics concept to describe all kind of movements we put our lines in. Otherwise this discussion would not be endless.

Should we be debating the nature of infinity?

[Graeme H]

Hi Graeme,

If the wave doesn’t transport the fly leg then what does it do? A wave isn’t just a bend in the line, it is energy travelling through the line.

Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop. This undoubtedly means that angular momentum is involved.

Cheers, Paul

The fly leg is one half of the wave. The rod leg is the other.

The wave is transmitting the energy you put into it through the line. You know how you flick the line to the left and bring it back to put a mend in the line? You put a little bit of energy into it and that runs along the line. The result is a bit of line being moved to the left. Put a bunch more energy into that same flick and wait a bit, and the whole line is moved to the left, not just the little bit from the mend. Especially if you started with the line in a favourable orientation to accept that energy.

Particles of the flyline rotate through an arc at the loop

Really? We need to Zoom I think. It would be really good to let you examine how the marks on a line interact with the loop.

Cheers, Graeme

[Bernd Ziesche]

There obviously is no one fixed physics concept to describe all kind of movements we put our lines in. Otherwise this discussion would not be endless.

Should we be debating the nature of infinity?

Might be helpful sometimes in SL!

[Paul Arden]

The wave is transmitting the energy you put into it through the line. You know how you flick the line to the left and bring it back to put a mend in the line? You put a little bit of energy into it and that runs along the line. The result is a bit of line being moved to the left. Put a bunch more energy into that same flick and wait a bit, and the whole line is moved to the left, not just the little bit from the mend. Especially if you started with the line in a favourable orientation to accept that energy.

So now you are saying that the wave transports the fly leg? Maybe I misread but I thought a few pages back you said it didn’t do this (line on the floor).

There has to be angular momentum otherwise there wouldn’t even be a loop. Just an accordion.

Sorry busy packing for Langkawi. Back later Graeme.

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

Hi Paul,

The fly leg is part of the wave. One leg of the wave.

The only thing moving in the cast is the fly leg. It stops moving when the line in it hits the rod leg’s tension. The path it takes to enter that collision is top part of the loop. Once it hits the nose, that’s pretty much it for its forward journey. It only moves down or up (counterflex) once it hits the front of the loop. The only curve is the entry into the top of the loop.

Getting confusing, I know. It needs animated diagrams to clarify.

The path shape is the wave form you imparted with the rod tip.

[Merlin]

The fly leg is one half of the wave. The rod leg is the other.

The line is the wave finally, the loop is not. So the tension is the same on both ends of the line? The wavelength varies along the line or the legs are necessary parallel? The wave is asymmetric? We are just lost by the definition of the transverse wave in a line which is the line itself. That is strange physics indeed.

wavelength.JPG (23.85 KiB) Viewed 359 times

Getting confusing, I know. It needs animated diagrams to clarify.

It needs more than that, a complete course on the physics of a transverse wave in a fly line. To be convinced there is the need to repeat numerous times statements without trying to confirm them by actual physics laws.

After the vanishing of angular momentum of the loop, the situation is degrading page after page. Graeme is bewitched by the devil of waves I’m afraid. I have no magic spell to bring him back on earth unfortunately.

MAYDAY, MAYDAY!

Merlin

[Graeme H]

...

It needs more than that, a complete course on the physics of a transverse wave in a fly line. To be convinced there is the need to repeat numerous times statements without trying to confirm them by actual physics laws.

After the vanishing of angular momentum of the loop, the situation is degrading page after page. Graeme is bewitched by the devil of waves I’m afraid. I have no magic spell to bring him back on earth unfortunately.

MAYDAY, MAYDAY!

Merlin

Hi Merlin (and Gordy),

So you're saying that unless the motion on the string looks like this, it's not a transverse wave? The line must have displacement about a common point and be returned periodically across that point. Something like a wiggle mend, perhaps.

If we have a rope or string or fly line that follows that motion, you'd call that wave motion, is that correct?

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

Yep that is confusing Graeme. I had imagined the transverse wave to be a wave travelling through the line. Maybe I’m confusing what you write and Berlin used to write when he called it an “energy packet”. But that’s certainly how I understand a transverse wave to behave.

If the entire flyline is the transverse wave then I don’t see how it can move… through itself?

IMG_4885.jpeg (68.8 KiB) Viewed 293 times

I think a “transverse” wave would be the loop running through the line. I prefer whip wave. Or loop wave.

Cheers, Paul