Guide sizes

[alanj]

How do you choose what size guides you should use?

Decided on REC single foots for my new build. #6 9'
But what size ( I.D. ) guide rings do I actually need?

I've seen talk of micro rings to save weight, but they seem likely to introduce other issues ( 2 hours to thread a line? )
So going bigger, but how big?

Also should you taper the sizes, if so at what points? As far as i can tell my existing rods seem to have the same size guides apart from tip and stripping, but that seems odd to me.

Thoughts?

[George C]

There is no consensus on guide size for fly rods that I have been able to find. Most of the information regards snakes. I’ve read that one manufacturer ( Scott? ) did testing years ago and decided larger was better, another ( Sage? ) reached opposite conclusions and preferred smaller guides at least near the tip.

There is no reason to use ‘cone of flight’ tapering guide sizes on fly rods ( or spinning rods casting braid). The philosophy nowadays is to knock down line coils with a loop shedding collector, guide the line to the blank with several transition guides then carry it out the blank with small running guides. For a 6wt I think most people would go either 16-10 or 12-8 for collectors and then a single 5 REC RSFX followed by six or seven size 4s and a medium wire tip.

As for single foot wire guides I used size 4 RECs the first time I built a HT6 and they were fine. REC makes two versions of this guide, the RSF and RSFX. The first is a thinner wire recommended for 4wt and less. The second is for 4wt and up.

If you are trying to minimize weight pay attention to the tip. Wire tips are heavy. I think Hopkins and Holloway make a ‘light tip’ with reduced tube length but I’ve not tried it. The REC tip looks sharp edged to me although I have not used one.

[alanj]

Thanks George that's really helpful.

Snakes: Really really don't like them. Always seem to get horrid tangles with them.

So REC RSFX's it is then.

Stripping guide: I was looking at the Fuji Torzite T-LKWTG size 16.
Tip: Still undecided but again looking at a Torzite. Perhaps Fuji TORZITE DARK T2-KGTT tip

How do you find the weights of any of the guides? I can find all sorts of measurements but not the weights.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Alan,
each ring size and type has advantages and disadvantages. There can't be a general better or worse.
Selling rods: People love to feel little weight, thus small diameter in tip section (swing weight) was the choice often.
Fishing shooting heads or short headed lines: Small diameters make thick line parts and connections stick.
Fishing in icy rivers: Small diameter freezes easier.
Fishing for XXL fish like Tarpon snakes were said to be stronger due to the two feet.
Costs is yet another factor.
Fishing wise I prefer bigger rings to be flexible no matter what line I pick and I fish in winter, too.
If you cast a lot on grass, snakes may not last very long. Torzites are much better in durability.
Regards
Bernd

[alanj]

Many thanks!

Yes I've decided to go larger. If only to be able to thread a doubled line through easily.

Light tip. Hmmm is there really a noticeable difference? I'd think that once you have a line fitted, rather than just waggling a bare rod in a shop, then detecting a difference in tip weight would be impossible. ( Please don't let this descend to another of those endless physics arguments! )

I only fish for small trout. 3lb is a monster. So strength not a big factor. Can always fit two legged rings if needed. As I said I won't use Snakes. Just don't like or trust them.

Cost really not a factor either. People are happy to spend £1000+ on Sages or HTs etc. My blanks have all been well under £100 so far, so decent guides are a no brainer.

Full Torzites for any heavier rods I build but currently on #2 and #3's

Cheers
Alan

[whinging pom]

alan
I dont know if you have your guides, but Jason Pereira on here sells guides corks and fabulous reel seats that he turns himself. Well worth looking up .
all best pom

[alanj]

And blanks too! Yes built one, waiting for another to be turned ( reel seat insert ) and planning my third. All Fortitude kits.

I just want to understand more so I didn't have to keep asking Jason to supply whats needed.

[rusty]

guide spacing,

The guides for rod building are sold in kits and there isn’t any set way to do this if they all have room. Theoretically a 9’ 6# 4pc could be assembled without too much difficulty —- by hand. This could lead to building a trade-in rod as well, it’s a challenging phase or good skill to learn if that’s what you’re into.

thy rod & staff,

[Walter]

Light tip. Hmmm is there really a noticeable difference? I'd think that once you have a line fitted, rather than just waggling a bare rod in a shop, then detecting a difference in tip weight would be impossible. ( Please don't let this descend to another of those endless physics arguments! )

I built a rod once using a tip with a ring insert rather than plain wire on the advice of an experienced rod builder who said the line would shoot better. I didn’t find it shot line any better and I could not tell a difference in rod action or feel while false casting but I did find there was more tip bounce after releasing line. Other experienced casters also noted that the rod had a lot of bounce.

I only tried it once and you could say it was the blank but it was a 7 wt sage xp so I expected less bounce. I use the lightest tips I can now and haven’t had the same problem.

[Paul Arden]

The rings make a huge difference to tip bounce. I don’t really notice it on the higher line class rods eg 10WT. At 7&8 it’s certainly noticeable with ceramics. Anything below this and I don’t recommend it principally for this reason.

But there are other considerations too: shoot and durability. I do think Torzites shoot further. Also I’ve compared single leg chromes against Recoils and the Chromes performed better. A Torzite tip ring probably won’t groove before the next Ice Age, where as even highest quality wire tip tops need regularly checking.

Another consideration is what happens with small diameter rings and you get a clusterfuck in the salt? With oversize rings you can turn the rod upside down and with luck the tangle can clear the rings. With small Torzites you might lose all your rod rings.

Cheers, Paul