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Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

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Paul Arden
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#261

Post by Paul Arden »

I think apart from absolute novices, most students have goals that are unobtainable in the short term because they overrate their own skill level and I include myself in that classification. In practice, some might look at the loop but not know what it is they are looking for, others will not specifically look at anything without a target, others will try and track the fly leg but can't keep up because of the additional cognitive load (that was me as well).
This is right back on topic. Let’s say we are studying the gaze behaviours of two different casters. One is a very highly skilled accuracy caster and the other is still at the stage of concentrating on controlling his loops. This second caster, one would expect, would require their attention focused on cues to form tight loops. The more advanced caster doesn’t need these cues and instead can spend his time focussed say just on the target.

The result of that test would on the surface tell us that more time spent looking at the target (caster 1) results in a higher degree of accuracy because this is how the elite caster performs. However if caster 2 was to follow this advice, then in all probability their performance would suffer because it interferes with their ability to cast consistent loops.

Not to say it’s not a valid test but it also needs unpacking and following up.

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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#262

Post by Stoatstail50 »

Totally on the money Paul.
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#263

Post by easterncaster »

Paul Arden wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:19 am However if caster 2 was to follow this advice, then in all probability their performance would suffer because it interferes with their ability to cast consistent loops.

Not to say it’s not a valid test but it also needs unpacking and following up.

Cheers, Paul
I like this idea Paul.

Realizing the validity of this test as you said, it is plausible that caster 2 scores better as they now get to experience the joys of The Accuracy Gaze. As well, it gives caster 2 a new task that may help override their loop skills < sometimes a change of focus allows our software to run unencumbered by our conscious fumbling.
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#264

Post by Stoatstail50 »

There’s definitely a point where you can compound or replace objectives Craig but if you do this too soon then the caster just gets in a muddle and everything slows down from a learning point of view.

When we’ve got FC/BC loop control pretty much automatic then I think we can add targets. Personally, I don’t teach competition accuracy for a whole raft of reasons explained elsewhere, I do use hoops as targets though.
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#265

Post by easterncaster »

Yes, no doubt Mark. If I am honest here, my instruction at times proves that; when it does I certainly pull the plug on that aspect. At times though it does help to test a bit to see what the student can handle.
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#266

Post by VGB »

All good points and is really where the gaze behaviours paper is poorly worded in my opinion:
Fly casters should be encouraged to focus their attention on the target location
instead of focusing on their arm movements, or trying to follow track the line on
the backcast which is often instructed of beginner casters
If you cannot control the line, fixating on an accuracy target is a waste of time. However, changing objectives can destabilise an existing incorrect skill or prevent a boring training session of repetition by contextual interference. This piece written by some bloke called Will Shaw is remarkably good :D

https://sportscienceinsider.com/context ... ce-effect/

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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#267

Post by Stoatstail50 »


At times though it does help to test a bit to see what the student can handle.
Yep, because you generally want them working at the edge of their capabilities. In and out of the comfort zone. There’s a paper on that too but I think everyone’s done with papers for a while.😁
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#268

Post by easterncaster »

VGB wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:25 pm All good points and is really where the gaze behaviours paper is poorly worded in my opinion:
Fly casters should be encouraged to focus their attention on the target location
instead of focusing on their arm movements, or trying to follow track the line on
the backcast which is often instructed of beginner casters
If you cannot control the line, fixating on an accuracy target is a waste of time. However, changing objectives can destabilise an existing incorrect skill or prevent a boring training session of repetition by contextual interference. This piece written by some bloke called Will Shaw is remarkably good :D

https://sportscienceinsider.com/context ... ce-effect/

Regards

Vince
One of the drills I have students do as they are getting loops somewhat under their control is Casting Containers:
- 4 pc.rod
- take off tip section
- coupla' targets: hoops, hats, semi-full buckets of money...
- various sized pill bottles and maybe a few cheap cigar tubes
- place a container over tip
- assume forward cast start position

Have them throw the small containers to the target. Narrow containers are easiest but as the container openings get wider diameter a/o the container is short, the harder the task becomes. It shares aspects with the Wet Paint Brush drill. Did I do a FP on this drill years ago... ?
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#269

Post by Paul Arden »

As well, it gives caster 2 a new task that may help override their loop skills < sometimes a change of focus allows our software to run unencumbered by our conscious fumbling.
Hi Craig,

Certainly I agree it can work this way. I’m sure it does with us — and introduced at the right time it will with the student. Eventually anyway.

If also goes back to cueing. If the elite caster misses a target and then starts thinking about how he/she is moving their body, then they are most likely to start missing more. And this is actually very important, because if we set our student up to default to internal cues when things go awry, then we are also setting them up to choke under pressure.

I do like teaching target casting BUT I only introduce “the game” to higher level casters. What I particularly like about it is that improvements are measurable. I have a pretty good idea where someone is by their score. But most of all it’s fun, absorbing and more fun. And there are lots of variations of course.

Nice article there Vince!

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Gaze Behaviours in Fly Casting Accuracy

#270

Post by Paul Arden »

Have you tried that drill backwards over the shoulder, Craig? I know Bill teaches casters to throw car keys over their shoulders. Maybe car keys is not such a good idea!

Thanks, Paul
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