Ceramics on a 4wt?

[Paul Arden]

On the 4 I thought they were tiny. It was Flavio’s build. I’ll ask him!

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi George

More guides equals more weight and that will make the rod more floppy, especially if they are more towards the tip than bottom.

Cheers
Lasse

Hi Lasse
More guides also equal better line flow and less blank contact. Both also matter. How much is debatable.

The weight issue can be mitigated by guide choice, both material and size. The tradeoff is guide height and internal diameter. A size 4 torzite is much smaller but also lighter than a size 2-4 wire guide typically used on many high end rods. Is it too small? I don’t know. And what constitutes too many or too few guides, and why? How does this change with guide type or line stiffness? Again I don’t know.

What I do know is that I find the fly rods I’ve built with small torzite guides are nicer to cast and fish than a the ones I’ve built or bought with wire guides. Whether this will hold true for a rod as light as a 4wt, however, is an open question.

Hi George

I don't buy the better lineflow and less contact argument, tried it, didn't experience it

I love the less friction from lined rings compared to snakes and single legs, not a fan of the added weight on anything below an 8, but thats personal territory. I know people who deliberatly add weight to the tip to get a certain feel.

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Flavio writes:

I am not 100% sure about the torzite size, but I think it was size 5.5
I would not recommend using it on the HT4 though. I think they are to heavy and the action of the rod suffers. I much prefer the one with Recs

I actually thought the cerecoils were lighter for their diameter. I need to check now. HT9 won’t be a problem with Torzites anyway.

Cheers, Paul

[George C]

Thanks Paul.
I’d agree that 5.5s are too heavy for a 4 wt. The size 4s are lighter but the tiny ID concerns me, hence why I’m hoping to hear from someone with experience fishing them.

Have you tried your HT 6 and 7 built with size 6 torzites?

George.

[George C]

I don't buy the better lineflow and less contact argument, tried it, didn't experience it

Hi Lasse
I think the line flow issue may become more important as guide internal diameter diminishes. The need to use smaller I.D. ceramic guides in order to avoid a weight penalty may then also necessitate the need for extra guides to address the lower tolerance for sloppy line flow. A catch-22 of sorts.

I’m surprised you do not buy the blank contact/increased friction issue, however. I’d agree this is not a big deal on the delivery shoot but certainly it is a factor on the forward haul and I’ve been told in another thread that friction during a haul diminishes line speed.

To be clear, I have no illusion that I will gain significant distance through guide choice. I think I gain some things with ceramics but also lose some things as guide I.D. decreases. In the end any distance change for me is likely a wash. But I know I can build a rod with small torzites that is very very close in upper 1/2 weight to a wire guide rod yet much nicer to cast and fish. I know I can do this down to a 6wt…….. as for a 4 wt I’m skeptical but open minded.

Thanks for your thoughts
George

[Graeme H]

Hi George,

I'm running guides with an ID of 4.09 mm on my 4 wt and 5 wt Epic 'glass rods. I'm also running the same guides on my two HT6 rods.

I've never wanted for other guides on any of those rods.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

Hi George,

We use size 7s on the HT7. I don’t know what sizes I’ve tried on the HT6. These were always home builds.

Friction along the blank is a huge problem with non ceramics and for that reason with these I always twist the top three sections of the rod out by 45 degrees.

I wonder if the HT5 fitted with small Torzites would be a great 4WT? It would be interesting to try.

Cheers, Paul