Ceramics on a 4wt?

[George C]

Has anyone here have any experience using tiny torzites (T-KTTG 4 or 4.5s) on a rod as light as a 4wt?

I've gone as small as 5.5 on a 6wt HT and love the result (although for saltwater I find 6's as small as I'm comfortable using).
I have a HT4 I built with the lightest REC single foot titanium-nitrile wire guides. Love the rod but not the friction when extending line on the backcast (even with sections rotated) or hauling....although this varies quite a bit with line choices. I'm unwilling to accept the weight penalty of using larger torzites but think with the smaller guides I can build a rod with a frequency close to what I have now. The inside diameter of a 4 torzite is 2.44mm and of a 4.5 it is 2.86mm. I can live with being unable to pass knots.
Thanks
G

[Graeme H]

I’ve done it on a ‘glass 4wt and wish I had done it on my HT4.

Cheers, Graeme

[George C]

Hi Graeme
What size guides did you use and did you use one or two more, as opposed to a wire build, as some advocate?
Thanks
George

[Graeme H]

Hi George,

I can’t remember what size I used but when I get home, I’ll have a look.

did you use one or two more, as opposed to a wire build

I’m sorry, I don’t know what this is referring to. One or two more of what object? Size range?

More than what quantity? I assume some sort of standard size or accepted number, but I don’t know what object or quantity.

If you can rephrase, I will try to answer.

Cheers, Graeme

[George C]

Sorry Graeme
Some builders advocate using one or two more running guides when setting up a ceramic guide layout. I’ve fooled with this some using anywhere from 7 to 9 runners ( not counting the tip or two collectors) on the rods I’ve built so far and am still unsure as to its benefits. My instinct on the 4 wt is to go with more guides since they will be tiny and the line more flexible than the stiffer saltwater lines I use on most of the other rods.
George

[Graeme H]

Ah, got it. Thanks.

That line of thought doesn’t make sense to me. I use the old “formula” of rod length in feet equals the number of guides. I see no good reason to diverge from that based on the insert type.

Cheers, Graeme

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi George

More guides equals more weight and that will make the rod more floppy, especially if they are more towards the tip than bottom.

Cheers
Lasse

[George C]

Hi George

More guides equals more weight and that will make the rod more floppy, especially if they are more towards the tip than bottom.

Cheers
Lasse

Hi Lasse
More guides also equal better line flow and less blank contact. Both also matter. How much is debatable.

The weight issue can be mitigated by guide choice, both material and size. The tradeoff is guide height and internal diameter. A size 4 torzite is much smaller but also lighter than a size 2-4 wire guide typically used on many high end rods. Is it too small? I don’t know. And what constitutes too many or too few guides, and why? How does this change with guide type or line stiffness? Again I don’t know.

What I do know is that I find the fly rods I’ve built with small torzite guides are nicer to cast and fish than a the ones I’ve built or bought with wire guides. Whether this will hold true for a rod as light as a 4wt, however, is an open question.

[Paul Arden]

I’ve tried them a few times on the HT4 and I’ve never been happy. I don’t even like them on the 6. I notice the difference on the HT8 but for me it’s a question then of shoot vs speed of recovery and damping. Nothing is perfect. I’m going to play with Cerecoils on the HT9. It would be interesting to try these on lighter line weights. It really depends what you are after.

Cheers, Paul

[George C]

Hi Paul

What size torzites did you try on the HT 4 and HT 6?
For that matter, what size on the HT 8?

Also, aren’t the cerecoils heavier than equivalent sized Torzite KT guides?

Interesting to hear you are planning a 9.
Thanks
George