The Board

The general consensus seems to be most of you do not like the idea of an SLP. Many of the reasons seemed to revolve around teaching, so can we take teaching out of the equation and just discuss SLP as it relates to a straight fly leg on lengthy casts?

It would seem logical that there must be an SLP if you are to make a cast with a straight fly leg. How long or short might this take place? A few inches? A foot, a few feet?

What of the timing? Somewhere from MCL to RSP?

Thanks

Phil

Hi Phil,

Certainly not to RSP. Almost every cast sees the rod tip dip as it travels to RSP. Some straightness is important for a straight fly leg. I actually think that the most important part is RSP0 to MCL. However all of the tip path shapes the loop in some way and it needs to be slightly domed for most casts and certainly when forming the final stages of the loop.

Cheers, Paul

It strikes me that a SLP is different than a straight tip path. There is a lot of line behind the tip that needs to be considered as well. Line position and straightness at the moment power is applied along a straight tip path also matter (although I think using a waypoint can get around this to some degree).

Likewise, what is important is how much momentum can be imparted to the line during that period when the tip is moving towards the target, and how little momentum is imparted to the line when the tip is not moving towards the target. A lot of force over a short distance can have the same result as lesser force over a longer distance.

I find fooling with Paul’s snake head shot enlightening. If the backcast is well aimed with plenty of velocity you can slip line during forward rotation, touch the haul for a scant moment then release, and the line will sail out there with a straight fly leg for a surprising distance.

George C wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 12:54 am
I find fooling with Paul’s snake head shot enlightening. If the backcast is well aimed with plenty of velocity you can slip line during forward rotation, touch the haul for a scant moment then release, and the line will sail out there with a straight fly leg for a surprising distance.

Works the same way for a quick shot in saltwater.....

Paul Arden wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 4:58 pm However all of the tip path shapes the loop in some way and it needs to be slightly domed for most casts and certainly when forming the final stages of the loop.

Cheers, Paul

What do you mean?

thanks
P

Hi Phil,

At the beginning of the Casting Stroke there is usually some doming. This can be modified with Drag. Later on we see a fairly flat portion. And then at the final moments to rod tip curves away to RSP. The less the curvature in this path the straighter the fly leg.

It’s not just SLP that will cause a line and rod tip collision but even getting close to this will cause a collision due to gravity (at least with a cast in the vertical plane).

We don’t see SLP in reality. It’s a handy concept and gives us an easy to understand teaching concept, mainly for CCIs. Unfortunately it’s taken too literally by many and while there is a degree of straightness for a straight fly leg to occur, there must also be doming of the tip path for a loop to form.

Imagine pulling a perfectly straight fly line along a perfectly straight path and there is no loop. Do the same thing horizontally, with the line subject to gravity, and you are going to have an inverted loop!

Cheers, Paul

I find fooling with Paul’s snake head shot enlightening. If the backcast is well aimed with plenty of velocity you can slip line during forward rotation, touch the haul for a scant moment then release, and the line will sail out there with a straight fly leg for a surprising distance.

I spent a long time working with Slide Loading when I first got into distance casting. I remember standing in the garden with Jon and some of the other chaps and showing the results. I certainly hooked up some long casts but it was inconsistent.

Here it is essential that slipping on the lift and just touching the line at the beginning of the back cast and immediately shooting happens automatically. If the first response is not to slip line then the shot is not going to happen. So it needs to be ingrained. I suggest three months of training to anyone visiting. This has to be part of their stroke. In 1-2 seconds there is no time to think about anything apart from two targets. It is totally impossible to learn it here while fishing. I used to say on the first trip you won’t catch any fish, which was true. Now it’s not uncommon to catch fish on the first cast!! Ok sometimes there is choking on the first cast, but the second usually goes in when the knees have stopped shaking

Teaching the slip/slide on the forward cast, while still shooting line on the backcast is part of the stroke. It’s quite difficult to teach. Fortunately as long as the first part is in place, fish can be caught. Graeme said his cast came together when he learned to slip on the forward cast. As a result of that I’ve started teaching that too, whereas before I would wait to see if it would occur naturally or else find an appropriate time to teach it.

What is remarkable is how little line contact time we need to make with the line hand in all casts. Every Sweep component of a Spey Cast allows us to slip line at both the beginning and end of the movement. Contact only needs to happen when we turn the line around a corner. Stick this in the air and make the anchor a “way point” and you have a large change of angle Snakehead Shot.

Cheers, Paul

Hi Phil,
Are you familuar with this? And lets not forget, that this is a 2d view where the third dimension was the surface of my whiteboard. In real casting there is no straight. If we put several cameras, I doubt we see much of a straight path.
We try to get tip path partially close to.
Regards
B

Paul Arden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:23 am Unfortunately it’s taken too literally by many

Mostly on the internet during long winters , I’ve never had that problem in a real lesson but if you demo a cast and tell them to accelerate the line towards a target and then get the rod tip out of the way, a loop appears as if by magic. Of course, you are doing this with novices with short lengths of line and the stick man explanation holds up.

It’s strange how straight tracking is something advanced casters get excited by though

Regards

Vince

Phil Blackmar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:28 pm The general consensus seems to be most of you do not like the idea of an SLP.

By whom - I disagree. I think the SLP a very important concept. Sure real tip paths look curved, but that's not a reason to ditch this idealization. When I've joined this board the 5 essentials were considered as a milestone of teaching.

Greetings,
Torsten