Movement Skills Overview

[John Waters]

It is Paul and I have more data to collect this year about joint and musculature movement in casting, then it all needs to be the documented the year after. One thing I have found with my own casting (competition not fishing) is the importance of linear acceleration via stepping. I’m of the opinion that transferring the body weight using a static stance is limiting. One thing the popular right foot step for right hand casters is seat that explosive forward motion. The more important outcome it achieves is engage the torso quicker than the static stance does and that starts the progressive, cumulative velocity of key joints. I would suggest those casters who use it feel much more resistance or stretch in their body before their casting side elbow extends. They cast further because they are “feeling” that increased stored energy in their torso and shoulder. That’s what I mean by musculature “stretch and release”. The more you stretch and the faster you release that stretch, the further you cast. All drills for extreme distance should enhance that movement and outcome. For the fishing distance stroke you just vary that outcome. Some instruction is based on changing that, rather than varying it, and that is not a sound teaching strategy.

It will be interesting if anything changes,

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi John,

It’s not only a different movement patterns but also a different force application to what I teach. I look forward to seeing it. I will certainly explore the differences.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Hi Paul,

It's different form what I have ever considered to be correct casting technique. Would love to have you spend a day in the lab in Melbourne sometime.

We're just throwing,

John

[VGB]

Hi John

For short line casts, maximum hand speed is not a requirement of performance, shoulder, elbow and wrist rotational movement being the focus. In that case those joints provide the structure for a sub-optimal hand speed requirement.

Why sub-optimal? Surely, optimal is that configuration of variables that achieves the objective without detriment to the system?

regards

Vince

[John Waters]

Hi John

For short line casts, maximum hand speed is not a requirement of performance, shoulder, elbow and wrist rotational movement being the focus. In that case those joints provide the structure for a sub-optimal hand speed requirement.

Why sub-optimal? Surely, optimal is that configuration of variables that achieves the objective without detriment to the system?

regards

Vince

Hi Vince,

I referred to hand speed in short line casting as sub-optimal because the hand speed generated in short line casts is less than optimal. I very specifically related the descriptor "sub-optimal" to hand speed, I did not use it in respect of any configuration of variables or objective.

The movement range between short and long line casts is different, hence the outcomes are different, one such outcome being hand speed.

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi Paul,

It's different form what I have ever considered to be correct casting technique. Would love to have you spend a day in the lab in Melbourne sometime.

We're just throwing,

John

I’d love to! I’ll see what I can organise

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

To be honest John, I don’t see how you can define optimal independently of the objective. I wouldn’t consider maximum hand speed to be the optimal performance criteria for an underpowered curve.

If we draw an analogy with a car, defining the optimal speed profile for the longest duration, highest absolute range, longest distance, getting around an obstacle course will see a different optimum speed profile for each performance objective.

The selected performance objectives can vary quite considerably from student to student and will also drive our practice regime selection; blocked or random practice, perhaps combinations of those two as well.

Regards

Vince

[John Waters]

To be honest John, I don’t see how you can define optimal independently of the objective. I wouldn’t consider maximum hand speed to be the optimal performance criteria for an underpowered curve.

If we draw an analogy with a car, defining the optimal speed profile for the longest duration, highest absolute range, longest distance, getting around an obstacle course will see a different optimum speed profile for each performance objective.

The selected performance objectives can vary quite considerably from student to student and will also drive our practice regime selection; blocked or random practice, perhaps combinations of those two as well.

Regards

Vince

Hi Vince,

My apologies but I’m not understanding the reasoning behind your concern about my comments on hand speed. Of course maximising hand speed on a curve cast is not a performance criteria on a curve cast. A curve cast is a short line cast. I’ve stated optimal hand speed is not a performance criteria for short line casts. It is for distance casts. If you limit your hand speed when you are trying to cast as far as you possibly can you will not achieve your objective.

I very deliberately excluded reference to obstacles as a constraint on both learning and performance when I stated optimal distance requires optimal speed, less than optimal distance requires less than optimal speed. It is exactly the same as when I instruct a caster who has never held a rod before, how to move the line in the air for the first time, I do it in an unobstructed area. I maybe be incorrect but I don’t introduce obstacles like you see on a driving obstacle course, or an overgrown trout stream for that first back or forward cast. I also may be incorrect in assuming driving instructors don’t either when taking someone for their first driving lesson.

John

[VGB]

Hi John

It’s simply that maximising hand speed on a curve cast is not optimal for most fishing objectives, I believe that you are using the term “optimal” incorrectly. If we take this statement for instance:

optimal distance requires optimal speed, less than optimal distance requires less than optimal speed

Optimal distance and optimal speed is being used to describe maximums. Optimum means that value of a characteristic that is most likely to bring success against a stated objective in an efficient manner.

Regards

Vince

[John Waters]

Hi John

It’s simply that maximising hand speed on a curve cast is not optimal for most fishing objectives, I believe that you are using the term “optimal” incorrectly. If we take this statement for instance:

optimal distance requires optimal speed, less than optimal distance requires less than optimal speed

Optimal distance and optimal speed is being used to describe maximums. Optimum means that value of a characteristic that is most likely to bring success against a stated objective in an efficient manner.

Regards

Vince

Hi Vince,

We can agree to disagree on my use of the term "optimal". In my view, speed is the characteristic that is most likely to bring success from the casting stroke if the objective is to cast the line as far as possible, because it is the result of the most efficient movement patterning that best achieves that objective.

Gotta' go, I have a distance casting day with two CCIs.

John