I know it may not happen this way, but I feel......

[Phil Blackmar]

As a community, this board teams up to end misconceptions and advance understanding of what is really happening in fly casting. It's a noble cause. These pages are full of comments relating to discoveries made by virtue of modern technology and the hard work of many illuminating what the fly rod is actually doing, the timing of the haul, the myth of straight lines and so much more. It's a powerful group comprised of some of the world's finest casters as well as some of the most knowledgable.

This request comes from 180 degrees or the opposite direction. It's clear that feels are not real and when our perceptions are based only on feels, conclusions drawn from those feels and perceptions can be, and are often wrong. Yet, feels are incredibly important. Concentration, other than displacing distraction, is the memory of an action prior to performing the that action. It uses our feels and vision to attempt to produce the desired result.

We all feel things differently, yet, hidden gems reside in the feels of great performance. Whether it's "I feel the same thing", or "that's not what I feel, this is what I feel", exploring the feels of others can often lead to the discovery of personal feels of significance. I like to call these epiphanies. Some epiphanies last a few hours, some a few day and some as long as a lifetime. I like to think great performers have a tool box bull of epiphanies at their disposal. When an epiphany quits working, it goes back to the tool box where it waits because it may be useful again down the road.

Combining feels with reality is the ticket. This board is full of reality and truth, but what of the other side of the equation. The depth of talent on this board is incredible. I, for one, would love to hear you talented fishermen and casters share stories of what it is that you try to feel relative to specific set-ups and situations.

I'm sure there is a shared anxiety of being ridiculed for trying to feel something that doesn't really happen in that way. The title of this string should eliminate that fear. Every comment could begin with "I know this may not be what really happens, but, if I concentrate on this or try to do that it works for me." I, for one, would find a library of all of your feels very valuable and fun to mess around with. I hope you all feel the same way.

Cheers
Phil

[VGB]

I couldn’t honestly tell you Phil. Flow state probably best describes my “feels” whenever I’ve been on top of my game in any sport, everything is easy and fluid. I can’t describe it and couldn’t put words on it.

https://www.headspace.com/articles/flow-state

Regards

Vince

[Phil Blackmar]

Vince-

That is a great description for you...We are all different and nothing is right or wrong.

Glen Day of the PGA TOUR once asked me to watch him hit some drivers. As we started, I asked him what he normally did. He answered "Damn Big, I don't know, I just got up and hit it..." LOL

Mark McCumber asked me to work with him and on the way to the range the first day, he said "I'll do whatever you ask but you need to know I've never had a swing thought..." He always hit a fade, so I asked him what he would do if he had to hit a draw towards the end of the tournament with a chance to win and he said "I just thought draw, that's it"....

Jack Nicklaus was the opposite, he had swing keys. He told me "under pressure you have to keep the feet moving. When your feet feel like they're stuck in concrete, you get tight and in trouble." I asked Tom Watson what he would do on a difficult tee shot on the last hole tied for the lead and he said "I tried to let gravity bring the club down out of the top of the backswing so I didn't get rushed"

Bob Murphy was a great putter. I asked him which hand he controlled the putter with and he said "I use the last three fingers of the left hand for line and a pinch between the index finger and thumb on the right hand for speed"

BTW-there is a lot of information out there about flow state. It's an interesting topic much of which I think is spot on.

[Stoatstail50]

It's clear that feels are not real

Not so Phil, feels are totally real. The somatosensory system is kinda handy.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Flow state is an interesting one. I think everyone knows what it is, but the hows and whys are probably much more difficult to explain.

I've not read about it in books (yet), but you can see it just about every week if you watch NBA basketball. In any given game, there will often be one of the players, and not always the starting lineup players, that gets into a groove. A good coach and the rest of the team will notice it and, if smart, give that player free reign. They will often dominate the stats, as they say. Then, next game, they might be back on the bench.

Playing basketball in highschool was something I was decent at. To the point that I had an opportunity to have my college costs reduced by an athletic scholarship - not in a top basketball school btw, but there are lots of colleges with basketball teams and they need players. But, here is the thing - out of stupid luck, I got into that "flow state" during a game when there were a number of scouts in the stands. Not only did I help the team to win, but I got a lot of attention from dudes in suits soon after.

Smart beyond my years, I knew that a flow state was not something I could repeat no matter how hard I tried. It is just something that happens occasionally. I passed on banking on it for my college education.

To bring this back to flycasting: I seldom, if ever, get into a flow state when practicing or goofing around casting with buddies. I do not think it happens when I'm trying. On the other hand, fly casting while fishing seems to be predominantly a flow state. I seldom think about the cast when on the water. The casts just happen. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that I am thinking about so many other things.

In fact, often when I am heading back to the launch after a good day of solo paddling and flyfishing in the backcountry, I will sort of wake up, and say, "Wow... what just happened?" Its as if I spent a large portion of the day in a mega flow state.

That is what it is all about - isn't it?

But it sure makes writing up notes on the trip difficult!

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Phil,
feel is as real as sight, smell, hear or taste to me. It's a way to get information making it's path right into my brain. That information always remains individual.
Best feel in fly fishing to me is, when every now and then a strong force starts pulling at the other end of my line. It happens, that after a first run, I realize to have overestimated the one pulling in size.
Same easily happens after having seen the first jump or having heard the first splash.
It's our experience combined with a focused training allowing us to increase precision in interpreting the information.
Castingwise every slomotion cam always proved these my points. Over the years I got closer to adjust my senses in delivering the information to best match what the camera revealed afterwards. The effect of focused training...
Regards
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

Hi Phil,

Some that I use are to “think heavy” and “feeling for the weight of the line at the beginning of the stroke”. I also try to feel the line with the haul. I often use feel to help slow down. I also distract myself by feeling the grass under my feet. If we are discussing flow state, then maybe it’s feeling the grass grow under my feet! I sink my knees, which definitely has a feeling associated with it. Even if it’s just feeling more stable.

A big one for me is to explore how the force application feels. Is it the pressure from the top of the hand or into the bottom of the hand? Am I turning the rod over (rotating)? I spend a lot of time messing with that. It’s also one of the things I explore with high level casters too. I try to get in there, understand it and offer alternatives. The Cradle Grip delivery on a 170 cast feels like “clicking my fingers”.

Great stories from the golf masters!!

Cheers, Paul

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi Gary

I've spent quite a bit of time with a college professor of psychology which makes me like a first year law student, dumb and dangerous. I have also watched and read a number of things about flow state in addition to being in the state quite often when playing.

Flow state can be trained, but for most people, it is just a consequence of some good things happening resulting in emotional momentum that builds to a very high level of freedom.

I had a routine I used which took me to that place or zone as some call it. In San Antonio in the final Champions tour event in 2009, I departed from my normal warm-up by taking my headphones to the range and going thru my mental routine while getting ready. Half way thru I looked at my caddy and told him I was in the zone, and I was. It lasted 9 holes (30) and it went away on the tenth tee. I managed to shoot 64 on the day and win the tournament, however.

I have a friend who is a top ranked golf instructor in the US. He was also a very good competitive downhill skier growing up. He has struggled to get the most out of his golf game so I asked him to describe how he felt getting ready to race. Very aware, no fear, focused but relaxed were his comments. I asked if he ever played golf that way and he said no, how would you. I asked him to close his eyes and take himself to the blocks in his mind and do whatever he needed to make himself feel the same way. 90 seconds later he said ok,"I'm there". Again I asked ever play feeling like that and he said no. I told him it took 90 seconds to feel like that now. How long would it take after doing that each morning and night for 6 weeks. He said obviously much less.....

Here is an interesting video by a young Tiger Woods..... the voice at the beginning is his psychologist from his teenage years, .......

[Stoatstail50]

On the other hand, fly casting while fishing seems to be predominantly a flow state. I seldom think about the cast when on the water. The casts just happen. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that I am thinking about so many other things.

In fact, often when I am heading back to the launch after a good day of solo paddling and flyfishing in the backcountry, I will sort of wake up, and say, "Wow... what just happened?" Its as if I spent a large portion of the day in a mega flow state.

Exactly the same...I can forget to eat or drink and there's no such thing as time.

[Phil Blackmar]

This kind of wandered into the weeds a little....I meant more like what are your keys to: into the wind, 10 wt streamer long cast, side arm 50 ft 8 wt, inverted vertical rod, inverted side arm, timing of your hit comp dist, how do you hit comp dist, what size rod comp dist, etc etc etc...anything that pops in your mind.

For instance, I just got an 7 wt 8 ft fiberglass rod. I have had to change my stroke a little to fit this set-up. With the softer rod I can apply final acceleration with bottom of rod angled significantly forward and feel like I am throwing into the ground yet the fly leg goes parallel to the ground with a very nice pointed loop. It also fits rotating all the way thru the stroke if kept very smooth and goes amazingly far.