Casting injuries

[VGB]

I agree that many casters would not consider fly fishing an athletic endeavour. However, when either a shock or repetitive injury to the wrist, elbow or shoulder occurs, that view may warrant reconsideration. Kuhn and Kuhn (2020) surveyed 162 recreational fly fishers, living in the United States, about any pain they experienced whilst or after fly fishing. The authors found 36.4% of respondents reported experiencing upper extremity pain immediately after fly fishing, ranging from periods of less than one day and up to a week after their fly fishing outing. None were associated with long term disability.

I found it interesting that the authors mentioned an elliptical or side-arm casting technique in their findings. I suspect most of those anglers using that technique used torso rotation to some degree in their stroke. If they did not, maybe they should have. Both the instruction and application of an initial internal focus on how best to capitalise on torso movement, which then transitions to an external focus, may assist in better casting performance and less negative impact on the angler's shoulder, elbow and wrist.

A very interesting read John. I have had a cursory read of the paper and need time to digest it properly

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 7120959303

A few points caught my eye

Pain was shown to be significantly associated with casting in an elliptical/sidearm fashion (as opposed to casting overhead or 2-handed), varying grip style, and using weighted line or added weight (split-shot, weighted heads, etc). A major strength of the current study was that the general North American recreational fly-fishing population was surveyed, which may make our results more generalizable to the “average” fly-fisher.

This may be a geographical finding, it’s not a common technique over here but I would suggest we have our fair share of injuries in the UK. I want to mull over the “grip” discussion a bit as well, grip strength that results in rigidity has been overlooked as well.

Have you picked up anything other than the torso twist that you are willing to share?

Regards

Vince

[VGB]

Recreational fly-fishers should cast overhand, and if elliptical or sidearm casting is necessary, intermittent overhead casting may reduce the risk of upper extremity pain. Although further study is needed, holding the rod with a neutral grip (thumb on top), as opposed to one where the hand is fully pronated (finger on top), may also help reduce the rate of upper extremity pain and soreness. Last, recreational fly-fishers should be mindful of their casting technique and frequency when using weighted line or added weight (split-shot, weighted heads, etc), as this has been shown to cause an increased prevalence of upper extremity pain/soreness as well.

Based on a SPOOTA from my own observations, I would suggest that the reported injuries for overhead casting will also be predominantly shoulder and elbow problems in the casting arm, the vast majority of those casters will cast thumb on top. My money is on poor technique associated with inefficient hauls, too short a casting stroke and inaccurate movement, quite often all at the same time.

Regards

Vince

[Stoatstail50]

I suspect most of those anglers using that technique used torso rotation to some degree in their stroke.

Although, depending on the circs, there may be a case that they should, my suspicion is that they probably didn’t.

Usually we see force through a fixed, narrow pattern of movement as the most used variable for changes in objective. Want to cast further ? Don’t move more. Cast harder…more force. This is often used as a substitute for increasing the range of body motion, which, incidentally, I try to encourage almost from the get go. More force through a narrow range of movement means more stress and strain on the bits you do move and this means you’re more likely to tweak a muscle or two.

With regard to the paper, I have always assumed that the heavier the gear and the farther you have to throw the more likely you are to spring a leak.

However I’ve also seen CI casters in assessments attempting to cast short lines horizontally without moving their feet from a forward facing square stance to a more open one. This results in a very awkward casting stroke which potentially puts great strain on rotator cuffs. Part of very early training, in my view anyway, is giving people permission to work in comfortable body configurations that suit the tasks they’re trying to complete. Sometimes they don’t believe it’s allowed.

[Rickard]

I know that a study of injuries related to fly casting/fishing is done at Luleå University of Technology that is expected to be finished this month.
I don’t know the total extent of the study I have just seen a survey being made.

Maybe it is related to this paper https://ltu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/d ... TEXT01.pdf

[Stoatstail50]

Ulrik Roijezon is a Prof at the University there. He’s published a number of papers on biomechanics….and he can cast a long way too

Stefan sent me a book on casting injuries too…can’t find it now.

[Stoatstail50]

Fit to Fish, Hisey and Berend.

Still can’t find it

[VGB]

A little housekeeping to bring in John’s point of view

Interesting paper John. Not seen that one before.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti ... 7588766/

Injuries is a whole thing on its own. I have a recurring shoulder injury right now which has kept me off the water for weeks.

Whenever we instruct we have to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of the teaching techniques we might choose to use and select according to the needs of the caster. It’s never just black or white, some techniques don’t mix and objectives differ.

If you’re experienced it’s quite likely these decisions, good or not so good, have become ironed in through trial and error. When someone is new to this game of instructing, Vince’s vids offer a way of helping to make those decisions easier by giving a simple guide to some of the underpinning principles which are pretty much bedrock for instruction of motor skills.

I view injuries as being related to technique, they are interdependent. There are a few studies of injury risk in fly casting Mark, centred on the shoulder, elbow and wrist. That should not be an unexpected outcome given the focus on arm movement in the evolution of casting instruction, technique and performance. Maybe if there was more focus on other body segments and how they can better distribute the loads borne by the shoulder, elbow and wrist in arm-centric movement patterning, as is the case in other sports, that would be different. It shows the what is as important as the how and we have a bit go go with both.

John

[VGB]

I know that a study of injuries related to fly casting/fishing is done at Luleå University of Technology that is expected to be finished this month.
I don’t know the total extent of the study I have just seen a survey being made.

Maybe it is related to this paper https://ltu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/d ... TEXT01.pdf

Thanks Rickard, I’ll run it through Deepl later on.

Regards

Vince

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi John,
My biggest injury came from exzessive fishing. More than once.
As a beginner, first trip ever, 10h a day for 14 days, then my wrist was in heavy pain for a month.
Last years exzessive fishing all summer 15h a day for month, always looking down to the surface spotting fish and then killed my disc in the spine.
Poor technique, too one sided technique and time I think?
Regards
B

[VGB]

The document from Rickard is entitled “ Motion analysis of fly casting based on upper extremity and spinal injury risk.”

The abstract states:

Background:

Fly casting is a sport that has evolved from recreational fishing and is one of two disciplines within the Swedish Casting Association. Pain in the upper limbs and spine is common in flycasters but currently there is no research investigating biomechanical risk factors for injury in flycasting.

Aim:

To investigate and compare range of motion and angular velocity as risk factors for upper extremity and lumbar spine in intermediate and elite flycasters and between the events Trout Distance and Trout Accuracy.

Method:

Three elite and three intermediate throwers performed ten throws each in Trout Distance and 16 throws each in Trout Accuracy. The IMU system MyoMotion was used in the motion measurements for 3-dimensional motion analysis in a whole body model. Joint movements and angular velocity were analysed for the spine and upper limbs. Mean values of each thrower's maximum values for each throw in each event were summarised descriptively for the last back throw and the delivery throw.

Results:

In Trout Distance, the elite and intermediate throwers were at their extreme positions in the thoracic and lumbar regions and for the throwing arm in the wrist and shoulder joint. In addition, the elite throwers were at their extreme positions in the elbow for the left hand. In Trout Accuracy, the intermediate throwers were at their extreme positions for the wrist while the elite throwers did not achieve any extreme positions. Furthermore, the elite throwers generally achieved higher angular velocities in the back and delivery throw in the throwing arm compared to the average throwers in all joints in Trout Distance. In Trout Accuracy, all intermediate casters achieved higher angular velocities in all joints of the throwing arm and the columna in the back cast. Conclusion: In general, more outer positions and higher velocities were achieved for the elite throwers compared to the intermediate throwers and also in Trout Distance compared to Trout Accuracy.

Any errors in translation are entirely due to my own ineptitude