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I have yet to see a video of it where he has worked out the biomechanical issues of the forward cast.
Walter,
This was posted in another thread, but most of the videos I have seen show him releasing the line on the forward cast. From a bio-mechanical standpoint all he had to do was let go of the line.
Paul Arden wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:07 pm
I cast less distance the way Günter demonstrates.
Any thoughts about why?
Hi Paul,
On the forward/delivery, it uses haul side external shoulder rotation to generate haul hand speed. Unless you are an elite javelin thrower or baseball pitcher, your range of motion will be too restrictive to generate the required haul hand speed on long casts.
It works on short line casts because you only need to use elbow flexion to haul to the sternum on the forward cast and that is enough for casts up to 10 metres of fly line. Longer than that, your line speed is reducing.
gordonjudd wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:42 pm
From a bio-mechanical standpoint all he had to do was let go of the line.
Gordy,
That's not the issue from a biomechanical standpoint. The issue is that his back cast and haul on the back cast are extremely range limited.
Looking at Johansson's cast we see hauling from a start position other than hands together on the back cast and then switching to a hands together position for the forward cast. His range of motion on the both the forward and back casts is not limited and makes use of both active and passive hauling as much as possible. It serves as an example of an asymmetric style that works well in both directions. That is what I consider biomechanics.
Basic physics or mechanics gives us an insight into what is possible ignoring the limitations of the body. Biomechanics takes into account body structure and motion.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander.
PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.
PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
John Waters wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:30 pm
Why would you use greater movement range when the same outcome could be achieved with far less range of movement?
Adopting it as your model hauling technique inhibits casting performance.
John
Are you saying Feuerstein and Johansson are getting the same outcome?
"There can be only one." - The Highlander.
PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.
PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
No Walter definitely not. Johansson's technique is far more performance enhancing than Feuerstein's hauling technique.
My comments in post 44 pertain solely to Feuerstein's hauling movement pattern. He uses a long movement but it generates less speed than a different, shorter movement would for the same speed outcome, because he uses poor body structure in his hauling movement.
Anyone using Feuerstein's hauling technique as their standard, model hauling technique will never achieve their hauling performance potential.
I have no idea why you guys want to compare two very different techniques for different purposes - apples to oranges. One being a off-shoulder cast for special fishing situations and the other a casting sport technique (5wt line / tarpon rod). Better continue this in the flycasting section.
Maybe you can get back to topic, that is "Measuring the Haul" related to Flycasting Physics, I'd expect ideas - as the topic suggests - how to measure the haul speed for instance. One method has Gordy presented, video analysis with Tracker. I could imagine to improve the outcome with two cameras to have also the depth information (depends of course on the error you make with the 2D evaluation). Another idea would be to have a zebra line and to pick markers close to the stripper guide. The distance between the zebra markers cloud be used as reference for Tracker.
@John -> I'll answer to your comment in the FC section.
I have no idea why you guys want to compare two very different techniques for different purposes - apples to oranges. One being a off-shoulder cast for special fishing situations and the other a casting sport technique (5wt line / tarpon rod). Better continue this in the flycasting section.
Maybe you can get back to topic, that is "Measuring the Haul" related to Flycasting Physics, I'd expect ideas - as the topic suggests - how to measure the haul speed for instance. One method has Gordy presented, video analysis with Tracker. I could imagine to improve the outcome with two cameras to have also the depth information (depends of course on the error you make with the 2D evaluation). Another idea would be to have a zebra line and to pick markers close to the stripper guide. The distance between the zebra markers cloud be used as reference for Tracker.
@John -> I'll answer to your comment in the FC section.
Greetings,
Torsten
Hi Torsten,
My comments apply to an off the shoulder cast with a GF haul versus an off the shoulder cast with a downward directional back cast haul. They are very comparable, nothing to do with casting sport events with any line or rod.
