Evaluating the Haul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Based on discussions with other members we came up with two reasons for hauling. One was to shorten the amount of line in the air (distance related) and the other was to increase line speed (speed) related.

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The reason for defining the effectiveness and efficiency of the haul is provide a means of comparing different hauling styles or movements with respect to how well they meet their intended purpose understanding that there may not only be different purposes for hauling (distance vs speed) but also different situations where hauling is used (fishing, competition, etc.).

Hello Walter,
I don't understand, why I would use the haul to shorten the amount of carry? Can you put that in context for me please.

I use hauling to create the desired line speed in the easiest way. Compared to a none hauled cast it allows me to achieve extra max line speed when I need it (distance cast, fighting with wind, turning over a massive fly and so on). It also allows me to use a smaller arc for the same line speed and thus helps to tighten my loops, if that's what I need. For the same line speed I produce less rod bend when hauling, which again supports tight loops. The overall number one benefit imo is, that I can reduce force application via rod hand. That makes it easy to use a slight extra in line speed helping to compensate for impact by wind and casting inconsistencies. That extra line speed feels quite harder when casting rod hand only. Probably the reason, why when I asked students to cast with and without hauling to the same target, I almost always saw little (or quite) more line speed being used in the hauled cast (when yet this obviously wasn't needed).
Regards
Bernd

[VGB]

Hi Bernd

I shorten my carry to avoid back cast hazards and for fine control of slack line.

Regards

Vince

[Bernd Ziesche]

The indirect haul can be named “passive” if the line hand does not move at all. I made a comparison with a fixed position of the line hand

Hi Merlin,
Love to see the numbers for Henry's cast.
When hauling with a fixed line hand position slip easily becomes an issue.

Same with the GF powerhaul bc. Big issue in that style.

I can't remember, when exactly we discussed the impact of rod rotation on hauling before, but I just found an old picture made in 2010 on this. Must have been that year. I remember there was great information in that old thread!

BZhauling1.jpg (92.77 KiB) Viewed 198 times

Regards
Bernd

[Merlin]

Hi Bernd

In my study case the line is not allowed to slip, when the line hand is in position, the line is held by the hand. There must be some extra line between line hand and reel to allow the motion. I should have been clearer.

Merlin

[Walter]

Hello Walter,
I don't understand, why I would use the haul to shorten the amount of carry? Can you put that in context for me please.

Hi Bernd,

That was part of a discussion in the “Defining the Haul” topic on the Flycasting board. While the definitions aren’t formal a haul or hauling action was described as pulling line through the guides. The primary reason is to increase line speed but it could also be used to shorten line to reduce slack, improve turnover or other reasons. Think of the check haul, strip set or when trying to hit a target closer to you than the amount of line you currently have in the air without letting the fly touch the water.

Going beyond your question I identified distance and speed as the desired outcomes or outputs from hauling for this thread and since we can pull line through the guide’s directly (actively) with the line hand or indirectly (passively) with the rod hand I chose hand movement as the input. Effectiveness is a measure of output only - how much distance or speed my hauling action results in. Efficiency compares the input to the output, for example, if I move my hands 1 meter and it results in a haul distance of 1 meter then my haul wrt distance efficiency is 100%. If I move my hands 1 meter and my haul distance is .5 meters then the efficiency wrt to distance is 50%. If I use the mechanical advantage possible with the rod my efficiency can be greater than 100%.

As far as I know distance competitors are only interested in haul effectiveness wrt speed. Efficiency is more of a fishing thing although fisher people are also interested in effectiveness for both speed and distance.

[Merlin]

This time I studied Paul’s competition forward cast (a record analyzed by Gordy). The idea is the same: assuming a small change in line hand timing does not affect the stripper guide, I estimated the change in hand speed timing effect on maximum haul speed. And this is very interesting.

Paul FC line hand speed variation.JPG (46.69 KiB) Viewed 143 times

The graphic above shows the change in line hand timing and I illustrated RSP1 timing (best guess) with a solid red line.
Below you can see the evolution of peak haul speed which, contrary to the back cast case, increases as the pull on the line is delayed. So hauling later is favorable in terms of haul speed for a forward cast. In the case of the back cast, the best level of haul speed is achieved when peak haul velocity corresponds to MAV. Sooner than that and you get slack in the line. I assume that feeling the tension in the line allows not going beyond the MAV limit. If one delays the haul a little bit too much, then he loses some of the benefit coming from the indirect haul (stripper guide).

Paul FC haul speed variation.JPG (48.24 KiB) Viewed 143 times

In the case of Paul’s forward cast, there is practically no contribution from the stripper guide speed (a question of angle between stripper guide trajectory and line held by hand). So the haul for a forward cast is something direct.
The fact that the level of haul speed depends on the timing of the haul is not included in my casting model. The level of fly line speed difference between tuning towards MAV versus RSP1 should be reduced for a forward cast (see table in post #47).That is not straightforward for sure, but this is good news.

Merlin

[Merlin]

Did you notice that peak haul velocity happens before peak line hand velocity? That should encourage people to haul pretty late, even through RSP1 maybe.

Merlin

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Walter,
Thanks a lot, got it!
Good point about tension.
But I think that goes both ways in hauling. We pull = increasing tension, we feed in = we decrease tension. In fact on a huge carry I don't feed in as fast as I do on a short carry, because otherwise I loose tension. That was quite a step to Play with on the MED5.

Hi Merlin,
Thanks, got it!
About best haul timing my feeling is, that we move in circles since a long time. Perhabs there is no general best time, but advantages and disadvantages, while it depends on many variables for every specific cast?
Regards
Bernd

[John Waters]

Did you notice that peak haul velocity happens before peak line hand velocity? That should encourage people to haul pretty late, even through RSP1 maybe.

Merlin

Hi Daniel,

I assume, how quickly the haul hand achieves maximum speed is an important determinant of performance?

John

[Paul Arden]

Thanks Daniel,

One observation I would make is with our distance hauls timing is critical. I think we play with the tight loops/tailing loop boundary. I know when I see tails form on the backcast I fix this by delaying the haul (and hit) slightly.

How much error do you think there is in measuring the speed of back haul, since the arm is filmed side on? Won’t the haul distance be (2pi.r)/4, which would make a difference of 1.57 for the forearm movement?

Cheers, Paul